1) Ask (3) questions from the chapter that you'd really like answered.
2) Write a response, choosing a line and explaining it's significance to you. Please remember: no plot re-cap! Share your analysis, make connections to the world, ask questions, discuss imagery, and deepen your thinking.
3) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
3) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
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ReplyDelete1)
ReplyDelete- Why Ralph and Piggy join Jack's group?
- Is Jack getting into a frenzy with killing things? How will this effect him in the future?
- What is the status of Jack and Ralph's friendship? Is it over? Is it just beginning?
2) "Piggy and Ralph, under the threat of the sky, found themselves eager to take place in this demented but partly secure society. They were glad to touch the brown backs of the fence that hemmed in the terror and made it governable."(152)
When the group split into two, Piggy was determined to stay on Ralph's side. But, once Ralph and him join Jack's group for dinner and dancing they realize that they wanted to be a part of the island society even though it was crazy because it was secure. They like the society because it is structured. The second part of the quote means that they were glad to touch the fence that kept in the terror and made the terror manageable. Even though the group has had its ups and downs, the boys manage to somehow group back together again. They don't know anyone else on this island so separating from one another would make their journey of getting off it even more complicated than it already is. I think that Ralph and Piggy also realize that the more boys that join Jack side, the more alone they will be and have to fend for themselves rather than having a team behind them. This could also connect to Simon's death, because all the boys collectively jumped on Simon and killed him. If Piggy and Ralph hadn't joined in on Simon's death, then maybe they would be considered outcasts even more than they already are. By joining in, they showed that they are willing to assist at a crime in order to fit into a society. We can relate this to our own teenage lives. In school, people feel that if they decide to not go with the norm and not be apart of a group, they will be looked at as an outcast or weird. This ties into the whole idea of maybe it is just easier to be apart of a group than be an outcast and get looked down upon/shunned by the rest of society.
1) - Why does the conch not count on Jack's side of the island?
ReplyDelete- How could dancing and chanting save Jack's group from the rain? Has he reached a point of insanity/dillusion?
- Have the hunters become such strangers to humanity that they would kill Simon? Did they do this because of the heat of the moment?
2) "Now the terrors rose another desire,thick, urgent, blind" (152). This quote really stuck out to me because it symbolizes the entire journey of the savages. They have reached a point of no return, which is pretty terrifying. Now as Jack as the leader, he has lost all sense of control leading them to kill Simon, a human member of the island. However, they believed he was a beast, and instantly killed him once engulfed by the circle of Jack's chanting followers. The savages have become blind, and now with a strong leader, and followers, their power is unstoppable. Their blindness has lead them astray of the real task on the island: getting rescued and survival. Ralph and Piggy are the only two left that havent joined this "cult". I think they need to regain strength in the island, making sure the hunters do not take over fully. Plus now that Simon is dead, who will the Lord of the Flies command? Will Piggy and Ralph make it out alive before the hunters turn on them too?
Sofia-- I like the punctuality. Keep it up :).
DeleteYeah I agree, but Piggy may become a savage. That is because he said to Ralph on page 148 that he doesn't know if he'd be better of joining Jack. I understood where he is coming from when he said this because almost everybody is betraying Ralph for Jack. After what Jack's pack of savages did to Simon I do not think that I myself would join his group, and I am guessing that Piggy lost that small disire to join Jack's group of savages.
Delete-Marcello Brattesani
1. I wonder what significance Simon death will have on the boys?
ReplyDelete2. How will the division of group effect the more minor characters divided amongst them?
3. What does Simon stand for in society (what does his death represent that we can relate to)?
I think that the most significant line from this chapter was on the last page "...itself a silver shape beneath the steadfast constellations, Simon's dead body moved out toward the open sea" (page 154). This quote is significant for many reasons (shock value, language) but more then that this quote embodies failure. The failure of the group because they are unable to put aside vain conflict for the greater good of the group. Simons failure and his inability to complete his mission. The fact that someone who has seemed throughout the entire book to be nothing but helpful and rational is bewildering. Golding uses Simon as a pawn to represent how innocence and hard work alone is not enough.
I disagree to a certain extent. I believe that Simon in this situation was simply an individual fighting against a desensitized mob. Simon's floating into the ocean seemed to be an inevitability . Simon does to a level stand of an inability to complete his mission but its more because of the odds where against him.
DeleteLily Cook
DeleteI agree with both Senegal in Kate, and I think there's no wrong answer in this passage analysis. I think that the quote that you chose, Kate, does in a way represent that Simon died in vain, and he represented something good. To see him die was a failure in a sense. I do see what Senegal is saying here as well, about Simon being one individual against the whole society of the island. Overall, Simon's character in the book definitely is profound in many different ways, and his death in chapter 9 could represent both a failure and also a man vs. society conflict.
Lily Cook
ReplyDelete1.) Does Simon's death represent that evil overcomes good in this chapter?
2.) How will the group splitting even more affect Ralph and Piggy? Will quality overcome quantity of the boys?
3.) Why did the dance turn the boys into a savage frenzy?
The part in Chapter 9 that stood out to me most marked the utter transformation from humans in civilization to savages in the wild, when "There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws." when Simon was mistaken for the beast. This line showed the animalistic ways that the boys were acting. Because there was nothing that could be heard except "the tearing of teeth and claws", this could be compared to how animals in the wild act when they hunt down and devour their prey. This is significant that the boys are now acting this way, because I think up until this point, Golding has gone from hinting this type of behavior, and now finally it has reached the apex of intensity.
Good Job Lily I completely agreee with you and the fact that they killed the boy that could have possibly saved them from their animalistic ways, the boy that held the truth. As im writting this i notice that Simon was like the Jesus of the group the one that could saved them from their instinctual anamalism, the savior but they themselves killed him.
Delete1)- Why can't Jack just stay with Ralph in his group?
ReplyDelete- Why would these savages kill Simon?
- I wonder if Jack's group of savages will reflect on what they have done or if they will completley try to turn this into a dystopia?
2) "Take them some meat"(pg-149) said Jack. It is odd to me how Jack left Ralphs group and created his own group, and now being compassionate towards towards two people who he pretended to hate. I think that Jack just wanted to be in charge of his own group and a group of hunters is'nt enough for him so he left and is trying to reverse the situatuation so Ralph has to crawl back to him and he is the leader. I do not think that Jack disliked being in a group with Ralph, I just think he was tired of hearing Ralph try to control everything and wanted all the power for himself. No matter if Jack agrees with something that Ralph says I think he prefers to say it and hold the leadership and dictatorship over people.
-Marcello Brattesani
- Why does William Golding refer to Simon as the beast?
ReplyDelete- Did the boys even realize that they had killed Simon?
- Has Ralph completely let go of his ideas of order and civilization?
“Piggy once more was the center of social derision so that everyone felt cheerful and normal” (149).
Even though Piggy contributes some of the best ideas in the group, since the beginning of the book he has been disrespected. I found it surprising that Ralph took advantage of the situation where Piggy was hurt in order to laugh with the rest of the group to feel united with them. This shows that Ralph not only desperately needs the approval of others, but also that he wants both groups to combine. I wonder if Piggy being hurt throughout the book foreshadows any possible danger that he will encounter. In addition, I wonder if Piggy is afraid to speak up about being bullied or if he just wants to be accepted therefore goes along and doesn’t say anything.
You make a really good point. Ralph has always wanted to be the center of attention. Whether it is being the leader, having Jack like him or making sure the boys listening to his every move. Since Jack split the group up, Ralph only has Piggy by his side anymore and since the rest of the group doesn't like Piggy that much, it's important to Ralph that the others still like him so he can remain as the leader. Piggy was the first person Ralph met on the island so to brush him off and push him away is mean. It reminds me of how in movies when the main character finally becomes friendly with the popular crowd and they actually forget who their real friends are.
DeleteI questioned that too,why does Piggy not speak up?Is it because he sacred about being bullied like you said,or is because what they might do to him?The boys' actions now are unpredictable,and Piggy saw that with Simon.In Ralph case everyone wants to be part of a group even if that group is very small, wanting to be accepted is natural to humans. I believe,and Ralph wants to be part of the group once again.I don't think Ralph has lost completely the idea of order and civilization,yes it is getting harder to maintain,but first he has to get acceptance back into the group like you said before, in order to put new rules
DeleteI agree with you. I think this questions Ralph's leadership skills, if he needs the approval of others. I also find it sad that this has to be, because I think Ralph is a good leader and this just makes me doubt him. I hope this won't affect Ralph's role as the leader and the boys actions towards Ralph.
Delete- Why do Ralph and Piggy give in and joy the other boys in the dance?
ReplyDelete- Does the death of Simon signify the rise of tyranny in Jack's group?
- Did they even know they were killing Simon?
"'I gave you food', said Jack, 'and my hunters will protect you from the beast. Who will join my tribe'"
Although Jack has seemed to gain the allegiance of the boys he has gained those allegiances on false pretenses. The only reason he is able to get so many boys on his side is because they fear the beast, and he offers them protection from it. The truth is though that the beast is not an actual physical thing, but something that lies within them, which defeats the whole purpose of Jack's clan at all. I am not sure if Jack actually believes that the beast is real, and that he only pretends to believe in it to gain favor over the boys. As we seen in earlier chapters Jack is a power hungry, selfish, savage. Maybe later in the book the boys will realize that it is more important to try to get off the island (Ralph), then spending their time fearing a made up monster (Jack).
I think that's a very good point. I feel that Jack has placed this beast on a pedestal, and is using it to its full extent to gain the respect and the obedience of the rest of the boys. They all have the fear of the beast in common, and so if Jack pretends that he can guide them through this and defend them from the beast, then the other kids will want to listen to him rather than listen to Ralph. All the kids scared of the beast have become so deranged by their fear of it, that they kill Simon without question.
DeleteWhat does the wild hunting dance stand for?
ReplyDeleteWhy did Simon have to die?
Did the events of his mental break down mean nothing to the kids still living on the island?
"There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws." Chapter 9, pg. 139. This surprised me what they chose to do for to there friend solely because they were caught up in the excitement disgust me. This act wasn't spawned by an instinct to survive but Jacks pride and fear or Ralph's role as chief.They didn't even chant they just coldly attacked the lone boy with there hands and teeth clawing away at him as he tries to describe what "the beast" really is.
I think the boys have placed all of their fears into this shadowy beast created, because it is the only acceptable thing to fear (as apposed to dyeing or getting of the island). Their actions can be justified as less inhumane because by attacking the "beast" they are attacking everything they are afraid of. This level of suppression demonstrates even more societies influence of "keeping quite".
DeleteWhy specifically did Simon had to die?
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't the boys seems very remorse over Simon's death?
Why did the dance made them seem so savage?
"The beast was harmless;and horrible."(147)This was what Simon thought after he saw the pig's head I believe, on the ground rotten.Because Simon died before he could tell the rest of the boys in the group this message, the boys will remain with that fear of the "beast". They are also are acting more savage than before,and having that fear in their hearts,and mind will be a spark I think, leading their actions to become more unpredictable, and forgetting a bit more about civil society, and soon they will be a danger to each other.
I think that Simon's death proves that they're already a danger to each other. To answer some of your questions: I think the dance made them act savagely because while they were dancing around, they were also chanting kill the pig and reenacting the pig hunt. This made them feel like they were back in the real hunt. Also that because of this, the boys didn't really know that it was Simon they were killing, which is why that didn't seem remorseful. It's just so crazy how NONE of the boys recognized this so called beast to be Simon.
DeleteI think that Simon's death could be a foreshadowing of what could happen in the near future. Like you said, their actions are becoming more unpredictable as time passes by. The boys are slowly becoming savages just looking to survive. I feel as if the boys will do anything they have to do in order to survive and if that means killing each other, like the just did in order to save themselves from the "beast," Simon, they will do so without hesitation.
DeleteDid the kids really not know that is was Simon? Or were they just that bloodthirsty and insane?
ReplyDeleteDoes the beast exist or not? Is the parachutist what the boys were seeing?
What do the boys think they will gain with Simon instead of Ralph?
One line that I found to be very interesting was "The body lifted a fraction of an inch from the sand and a bubble of air escaped from the mouth with a wet plop. Then it turned gently in the water."(154) This line particularly stood out to me because it was the waves that were crashing and swallowing Simon's dead body, almost taking it away to never be seen again. I think the waves washing away his body represents the situation that the boys on the island face; they feel that there are no problems even though they savagely killed one of their own friends, and are trying to cover it up, which can be represented by the waves, almost acting as a blanket wiping away all traces of the incident. The storm coming also epitomizes the peak of their distress and insanity, coming down on them violently as they did upon Simon.
I agree with your view on this symbolism, simple man. I think that certainly at this point they are the brink of insanity and I cannot see it getting much worse. They have officially hit bottom and there seems to be no longer any sort of possibility of reestablishing any civilized ideas or societal norms. Even if they were to be rescued, it would be a useless endeavor as they have strayed so unbelievably far from where they came, mentally, and physically, as the events in this chapter suggest.
DeleteDid the kids really not know that is was Simon? Or were they just that bloodthirsty and insane?
ReplyDeleteDoes the beast exist or not? Is the parachutist what the boys were seeing?
What do the boys think they will gain with Simon instead of Ralph?
One line that I found to be very interesting was "The body lifted a fraction of an inch from the sand and a bubble of air escaped from the mouth with a wet plop. Then it turned gently in the water."(154) This line particularly stood out to me because it was the waves that were crashing and swallowing Simon's dead body, almost taking it away to never be seen again. I think the waves washing away his body represents the situation that the boys on the island face; they feel that there are no problems even though they savagely killed one of their own friends, and are trying to cover it up, which can be represented by the waves, almost acting as a blanket wiping away all traces of the incident. The storm coming also epitomizes the peak of their distress and insanity, coming down on them violently as they did upon Simon.
Will the boys face their fears and look at the "beast"?
ReplyDeleteHow will the boys take Simon's death?
Will these events bring the boys together?
"The water rose farther and dressed Simon's coarse hair with brightness. The line of his cheek silvered... Then it [Simon] turned gently in the water."(154) I was taken back by Simon's death and was not expecting it. I liked him the most out of all the boys and was sad to see him die. But after reading the description of his body once he was dead, it made me feel like he was at peace. I think that after all the stuff with the Lord of the Flies and the "beast" and the boys, that he died and was finally at peace. Simon seemed to be going insane towards the end of the last chapter and I think it took him over and drove him more insane. I think that Golding left the character at a good place.
I had a similar reaction to that passage. Death is usually described with words that describe darkness, but this passage does the opposite. It states his hair was dressed with "brightness" when the water covered Simon and carried away. It almost sounded as though the author was implying that Simon was in heaven. This beautiful and peaceful discription of death struck me as interesting. Perhaps your right, maybe only when Simon died was he at peace.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhy do even Piggy and Ralph, who were close to Simon, join in on the dance?
ReplyDeleteWhat Golding's word choice when describing the island in this chapter signify?
What is Simons death a symbol for?
The line that stood out to me in this chapter was "There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws" (153). Golding's word choice in this line signified to me that the boys have truly been taken over by their animalistic side. When attacking Simon, "there were no words" uttered by the boys. Words and how humans communicate set us apart from animals. No other animal communicates through words. I think this line shows how they have truly lost their human qualities. The author also uses the word "claws" to describe what the boys scratch at Simon with, also showing how the boys are not even identified with human characteristics. This line showed me that the "beast" within them, has taken over.
I found Golding’s word choice for that line interesting as well. It demonstrates that savagery has taken over, which makes me wonder if Jack will become the leader. For your first question, I think that Piggy and Ralph join in on the dance because they want the feeling of unification within the two separate groups; essentially, I think that they were being careless/savage therefore thought they were killing the beast, which proves your point about their animalistic side taking over.
DeleteI completely agree Ruby. Progressively throughout this book Golding has been building up their decline into savages or animalistic creatures. In this shocking moment you see what they are truly capable of as the claws come out to battle the fear of the unknown they have for the beast, which they believe in this moment is Simon. It is also significant that Simon was bringing news that there was no beast when they turn on him as their alternative.
Delete-Why were the boys unable to stop attacking Simon?
ReplyDelete-Is it possible that their thoughts of eating pig meat clouded their judgement? Did it put them in some kind of trance?
-Why did Golding choose Simon (and not one of the other boys) to be killed?
"Even in the rain they could see how small a beast it; and already its blood was staining the sand" (153). For some odd reason, I found this line to be a bit poetic. Like even though the body of "the beast" [Simon] was small and seemed insignificant now that he was dead, he was still able to stain the earth. Unlike the previous scene where the boys were killing "the beast" [Simon], I was actually able to picture the scene out. I envisioned a small, dirty body that was mangled and bleeding out, it was a really gruesome picture. But I liked that I was able to draw up that picture from Golding's choice of words.
Yeah I agree. I find it so significant how in this chapter Golding used descriptive words that scar you. It really is amazing how Golding purposely did this to make the reader intrigued and awed by this act, kids killing kids. They have truly gone into savagery. They are no longer kids, they are no longer adults, they are no longer human.
Delete1. Why did Golding choose Simon to get killed? Is it because he was the first to find out the truth about the beast?
ReplyDelete2. How are the boys going to react to Simon's death? Ralph and Jack's reactions are especially important, because they will influence the rest of the group.
3. What does the wild hunting dance, Jack's tribe conduct, stand for?
I found it interesting how the island is physically reacting to the boy’s existence on it. At the beginning of the story, when Simon (RIP), Jack, and Ralph are searching the island, it seems untouched. Now this group of boys has brought havoc to it and the island is seeking its revenge. The first line in the chapter is, “over the island the build-up of clouds continued. A steady current of heated air rose all day from the mountain and was thrust to ten thousand feet.” The island is literally “throwing off steam,” the steam symbolizes both the anger between the boys and the damage the boys have done to the island. The more and more clouds appearing show that the situation is not getting better for the boys. Later in the chapter there is also a storm once again proving my theory. I wonder if the island will continue to try to push the boys out?
I agree that the island plays an important role in this chapter and as well does the weather. But I believe that the island represents the boys. In the beginning they were calm and so was the weather and now that they are wild and out of control the weather becomes scary and unbearable almost. Basically it was calm before the storm. But after the storm will it stop or get worse? Will the situation on the island for the boys change for the good or bad?
Delete1. Will the boys ever realized that they killed Simon?
ReplyDelete2. After the boys killed "the beast", will they evolve into a civilization again? Or go down into savagery?
3. Will the boys begin to fear a new thing now that the beast is gone? Do the boys NEED fear in order to feel safe?
"There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws" (153).
At this point of the book, there is no hope for the kids anymore. Almost everything is lost, their civilization and their humanity. They were so obsessed with killing this beast that they ended up killing their friend, Simon. It was an unfortunate and unfair event. This quote reminds me of the philosopher, Thomas Hobbes. Thomas Hobbes believed that when man had no higher power, man would transition into a State of Nature. This State of Nature is war of man against man, and, unfortunately, this is what is happening. Soon enough they will all go against each other and there would be no man left to save. It is sad really, Golding's word choices are crucial because they portray a vicious imagine in your mind. Imagine, 12 year old kids clawing and tearing a kid to death. This is just too freaky. I knew they were going to break but I didn't think it was going to be this fast.
I think they knew they killed Simon after he was dead for sure, and maybe even while the killing was happening, which is pretty sick. But I think this is important to know because it didn't seem to me that they were obsessed with killing the beast, but rather killing anything, and when they saw Simon crawl out of the forest, they didn't think about anything and just pounced. "Now out of the terror rose another desire, thick, urgent, blind" (152). Here Golding is writing about the chant, which started out of excitement, and eventually grows delirious and ugly. The new "desire" was the desire to actually kill something, and "blind" refers to the fact that the boys didn't stop to look at whom they were attacking. I do agree that the society is falling apart, but I think that the duo of Ralph and Piggy are the only chance left at being rescued.
Delete1) Why is Simon, especially after waking up from a mental breakdown, the one who finds the beast and knows what it truly is?
ReplyDelete2) Why does Ralph continue to contest Jack, even after all the boys joined him, and after eating the meat Jack and his hunters killed and prepared?
3) At the end of the chapter, did Simon get what he was really looking for when he ventured, alone, into the forest?
From chapter 9, a line that I found very interesting was when Jack asked Ralph and Piggy if they would join his tribe, and Ralph attempts to re-assert himself as leader. They get into an argument, and eventually, Ralph says: "'I'm chief,' said Ralph tremulously" (150). This quote stood out to me first because Ralph is making an attempt to assume the role of chief again after Jack, semi-officially, takes this role. This shows Ralph's dependance on, and addiction to, power. If Ralph was not elected chief at the first assembly, he would not be a special member of the society at all; nothing about him is particularly special or useful. It also shows how much being in power appeals to him, and I think this goes along with Golding's assertion that it is part of human nature to desire and horde power. The other part about this quote that was significant is that on page 126, when Jack makes a bid at ousting Ralph from chief, Golding describes his voice as tremulous as well. Have Jack and Ralph switched places within the society? Will Ralph be able to win the boys over to his side, or will he even try again?
Will Jack ever be able to go back to his civil ways?
ReplyDeleteWill Ralph and Jack split again on the ideas of the parachuter and Simon?
Will the lord of the flies continue to be a symbol throughout the last chapters
In previous chapters Simon had viewed the beast as something that is truly just within all human beings, almost getting him shunned for a provocative statement. But when he truly sees what the boys have been calling the beast he describes it as, "the poor broken thing that sat sinking by his side. The beast was harmless and horrible" (147). The comparison between this and humans is shown because of the beast he states is in all of us. The juxtaposition of "harmless and horrible" grants the reader the idea that humans have both good and evil in them and depending on circumstances they choose to become one. This foreshadows the horribleness of the boys later in the chapter as they kill Simon, the then unknown, bearing information to help. Fear takes hold of them and they are unable to see past it.
1. Is it significant that Simon is bleeding out his nose in the beginning of the chapter?
ReplyDelete2. Is Simons bleeding and vomiting at the site of the 'beast' the parachutist significant? Does it have anything to do with his knowledge of what is really happening?
3. Do you think that if the kids weren't acting crazy and doing a hunting dance would they have had killed Simon?
"'Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood!'"(138). The word "pig" sung in their earlier chant has been replaced with "beast" This chant turns into the real thing they actually kill Simon in this same attitude, they act upon fear of the unknown a quality of their human nature. I feel like the beast only appeared to Simon because Simon was one of the only ones that wasn't wild and crazy like these other boys. He knew not to act out of order, he didn't let his instinctive human nature wild side come out as did the other boys. Because the beast represents evil and what the boys have become As the kids thought they saw the beast although it was Simon killed it they are afraid of the unknown not knowing that the unknown 'beast'is themselves
John, i see exactly what you are saying! Simon is the only one (besides Ralph and Piggy) that kept his composure. It is scary to know that the boys gt so out of hand that they killed Simon, and replaced pig with beast. This shows the elevation in character after being on the island for so long. I also agree that they might be trying to cover the fact that the beast is within them, an no one else.
DeleteI like your point John, and yes, Sofia, it does show an elevation in characters, or a serious change in the way they are acting. But when I was reading this chapter I was really trying to understand why Simon was such an appealing target, and why the boys would want him off the island! John, just like you said that the boys could be afraid of the unknown, I think it's more that they are scared of the truth! It seems to me that Simon was one of the only characters that held all the answers, and that is what scared the boys. The fact that he knew the truth, and the truth as it can be a lot of times, wasn't very pleasant. I think that was their main motivation for killing him, if they did realize it was him.
Delete1.Why do Ralp and Piggy decide to go look at and eat dinner with Jack's group?
ReplyDelete2.What caused Jack to gain an obsession for killing and to become a savage?
3.Will the boys ever realize that the "beast" that they killed was Simon?
In this chapter I find it significant that the boys kill Simon because they think he is the "beast". It's strange that Golding uses a timid boy to be mistaken as a monster of some sort. What should be point out was that Simon told the boys that the only "beast" were themselves. Does the "beast" actually symbolize the savages the boys fear they are becoming? Was the killing of Simon a representation of them destroying their thoughts about themselves? The fact that Simon pointed out the faults in the boys and solved them was interesting, but yet no one listened. Furthermore, Simon was the one to discover there wasn't a beast and was going to tell this boy. I thought of it as Simon coming to tell the boys that they don't need to be savages, but they don't want to listen because they are afraid of what they have became. The fact that their savagery was what killed Simon was most astonishing, "'Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood! Do him in!'" (152).Their savagery senses has overpowered their body and are completely brainwashed. Will this savage behavior foreshadow another death in the group of boys.
1) Why do the boys not notice that it is Simon they are killing?
ReplyDelete2) How will the boys react when they do realize it was Simon who was killed?
3) What is the significance of Simon's reaction to the parachuter? (Puking, etc.)
To be honest, this chapter really scared me. I felt like a lot of the book was really leading up to a point when everyone went crazy and lost sight of everything. Every boy in some way or another has been drifting farther and farther away from civilization but in this chapter, when they all come together to do something so awful and disgusting, do I see a true change. On page 169, Golding writes about Simon's murder, "There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws." When I read this, I was immediately reminded of animals, and animalistic behavior. Has this been what the boys have all been reduced to? Unable to communicate and articulate, sharing only the desire to kill in need of power? So animalistic and underdeveloped that the boys couldn't even realize that the being they were killing was Simon, someone just like them. I thought that the book would have a low point, one where everything changes. But I wasn't expecting it to be this. Simon, to me, was one of the only boys holding everyone together. Now that he is gone I honestly don't know what is going to become of everyone else.
This chapter scared me too! It was shocking, yet inevitable that someone was going to get killed. I'm just sorry it had to be Simon. I honestly thought that Simon would eventually rise above Jack and Ralph with his wisdom and finally make something productive out of the boys. There is [was :(]definitely something different about him in terms of the way he thought. He was independent, and was therefore able to think more clearly and then have this great enlightenment with "The Beast". Like you said Audrey, I don't know where it's going to go from here. All my hopes for the good of the characters are gone. I just never expected them to sink that low and get that out of hand!
Delete1. Why did the boys think that a rain dance was going to solve the issue of the rain?
ReplyDelete2. How did the boys not notice that they were killing Simon, even after he was yelling?
3. Is it significant that the man in the parachute was blown onto the beach only after Simon was killed?
I found it interesting when they described the way Simon floated in the water. "Softly, surrounded by a fringe of exquisite bright creatures, itself a silver shape beneath the steadiest constellations, Simon's dead body moved out toward the open sea." The way that Simon died was violent and gruesome, yet after he died things were much more peaceful. For a moment, the island was beautiful again, like it was at the beginning. It was no longer a large, scary vast piece of land in the middle of nowhere that represented loss of hope and death. For that moment, it was beautiful and peaceful. I found it interesting that Golding was able to find something beautiful out of something so terrible.
1. Will the boys ever be able to join together again?
ReplyDelete2. What role will the Lord of the Flies play in what the boys do on the island?
3. Does simon represent good and innocence?
I noticed that Simon was not the only death in this chapter. The boys' sanity and human minds died too, when Simon was killed. "Then the breeze died too" (153) is a quote that, to me, represents the deaths in this chapter. As if the breeze dying was just one more thing added to the list, perhaps the last thing that was going to die. I think that Simon represented innocence in good and his dying off was a way to show that there is no longer any room or possibility for that on the island. The Lord of the Flies has taken over the boys. Evil has taken over.
I agree with the significance of Simon and what he meant to this island. I think when Ralph started to lose control we could see the boys starting to turn into savages but this was the last straw. Simon was arguably the most responsible on the island and him being murdered by the boys represented the their loss of innocence. Simon never took sides and was always neutral. Maybe things would have turned out differently had he actually chosen sides.
Delete1)a)Were the boys fully unaware that it was Simon?
ReplyDeleteb)What will happen when the boys ask about Simon's whereabouts?
c)Is this the "fun" the Lord the Flies had in mind when he spoke to Simon?
2) One of the recurring lines that appears again in this chapter is when the boys are attacking Simon and chanting "Kill the beast! Cut his throat! Spill his blood!(152). It shows how much fear the boys actually have about the unknown. Their first instinct is to kill and hunt when they come across a unfamiliar figure. Although the rain may have attributed to them not seeing Simon's full face this quote shows the fear they exhibit and how they may not be as strong and fierce as it seems. For them it's easier to just hunt and kill rather than actually see what or who the "beast" really is.
good point Asrat, i think seeing the cause of their chants and savage actions as fear is very interesting. i think now that these kids have killed and based their society around hunting this is all they know and is very acceptable and essential to all of them. i agree with the idea of them killing because it is the easier option.
Delete1. would knowing the beast was just a parachuter make any difference to the hunters?
ReplyDeleteWere the kids attacking simon all thinking he was the beast or did some know it was clearly him?
Will morals and and civilized thinking come to Jack now that this has happened?
2. "Thats where they've gone, Jack's Party" this line seemed very interesting to me and said a lot about Jack's character. this made me think about how good of a leader he is. I saw this as an impressive leadership strength in Jack. Jack seems to have a way with the people in that he can actually provide for them and in return they want him to. I am curious because does this mean he is a "better" leader than ralph. to me much of this book deals with relativity with morals and values. In that, to them someone like Jack should be called chief and brutal killings are glorified. While to people like us and ralph think of "our" morality and tell ourselves what is right and wrong, basing our lives on society. Though killing another person is clearly wrong the better leader to me seems relative and up to opinion.
Does anyone else find it interesting that the only adult on this island is dead?
ReplyDeleteWhy is Jack's leadership style so ritualistic and tribal? Why the chanting, face painting and calling him "chief"?
Isn't it ironic how the littluns are the first to run away from Simon despite the fact that they used to follow him around
like loyal little puppies?
This chapter was definitely the most haunting one by far. It starts out in such a gloomy, eerie place with Simon waking up in the dark after a nosebleed. The tone was clearly foreshadowing some gruesome event. We didn't have to wait long to find out what it was! I'm surprised that body is still there! How many days/weeks/months has it been since that plane crashed? The fact that death resurfaces in this moment, when it is in the back of our minds but not necessarily something we want to face is startling. Totally an indicator that there is more doom to come, more grief to bear. One line in the beginning that irked me was when Piggy was looking up at the sky and saying "I don't like them clouds. Remember how it rained just after we landed?" (147). To me, this is subtly indicating that something matching the chaos and sorrow that followed their decent into the island is going to occur quite soon. If there's anything that means bad news, its storm clouds. All in all, I just wanted to point out how good of a job Golding did of tucking in these little imagery clues to really pull us into the dread that was so pivotal to this chapter. I feel as if not enough blog posts focus on his genius writing skills and how he uses imagery to magically tie everything together.