Post
your reader responses here: Choose a line or two from Chapter 1 and explain why
it stands out to you. Does this line shock you, confuse you, or seem
important in some way? Does it make you ask a question? Can you make a
connection to your life or another text? Does the language stand out to you for some reason? What is this line saying about the characters in the novel and about people or the world, in
general? Then, respond to a classmate's post. Agree or disagree, but make sure that you add something new-- a new idea, a reference to another part of the book. Include textual evidence as you push the conversation forward. Ask more questions to keep the dialogue going...and remember-- this assignment is all about thinking/analysis.
"'I don't care what [you] call me so long as...it's not what they used to call me in school...They used to call me Piggy!'" I find it both strange and understandable that these characters would wish to separate themselves from their past lives since they they were marooned on the island. But being god knows how many miles away from your family and friends would you not wish to retain the parts of your life that are important and what is more important then your name. On a certain point I empathizes with this character as he sees and opportunity to recreate himself in this new situation. However also believe that I would want to hold onto some of the things that make we who I am whether negative or positive.
ReplyDeleteI agree with how Piggy's name is not very important when they're how many miles away from home. I think Piggy should just realize that that doesn't really matter and what matters is that they're in the middle of nowhere with no more human life around but themselves. And they are just random british schoolboys which probably don't know much about survival on a deserted island.
DeleteI agree that it is odd that these characters choose to seperate their self's from their past. But I think that it is also because the character doesn't understand that they are stranded on an Island and thinks that it is like an adventure or going to their friends house. They do not understand because of their lack of maturatity.
Delete-Marcello Brattesani
"Stillness descended on them. Ralph, looking with more understanding at Piggy, saw that he was hurt and crushed. He hovered between the two courses of apology or further insult." (25)This quote truly stuck out to me because it already showed the two sides of Ralph in just the first chapter. He could either be sweet and apologizes or just continue being a jerk and insult Piggy more. Piggy was the first person Ralph met on the island. If I were in Ralph's position I would not know whether to look at Piggy as a friend or as an annoyance. Ralph could either stick up for his new "friend" or continue to insult him because truthfully he doesn't actually know him too well. I wonder if their friendship will grow throughout the book or will they drift as the book progresses?
ReplyDeleteEmma, I agree with you about Ralph's personalities. We do not know much about him right now and the only things we do know are that he is mean at some points and sympathetic at others. I also see that Ralph has many leadership skills, he shows them from the beginning of the book and make me question his loyalty to his new friends. I was also wondering how their friendship will grow or if it will grow at all. As the leader of the group of boys, there are many task to be taken care of, making me think that Ralph will soon forget about Piggy.
DeleteI agree that the quote does a lot to show to two sides of Ralph. He seems like an understanding person who feels bad about Piggy being picked on, but he also knows that as the group's new leader, showing too much kindness and sympathy may be viewed as signs of weakness by other group members. These two sides of Ralph also show how much potential as a leader he has. In their situation, they need someone who is compassionate to help comfort them if they are scared, as well as someone who is confident to give them the impression that the leader actually knows what they are doing. The quote Emma used demonstrates how Ralph somewhat fits into both of these categories, which is why I think that it is very possible for him to become a great leader for the group.
DeleteEmma I agree with you that Ralph is acting extremely dismissive with Piggy, but i don't think thats because he's a "jerk." Ralph is having difficulty coping with the situation he's in and issues that lye before him. Piggy is an annoyance to Ralph because his constant worrying and planning forces Ralph to face reality. I disagree with Lila when it comes to there friendship, I think that Piggy and Ralph will become closer and stay friends. They are in an emergency situation and need all the friends they can have, for emotional support. I think that by the end of the book Piggy and Ralph will not only be best of friends but also have mutual respect for each other, unlike now.
DeleteI agree with all of you. The fact that Ralph has two sides to him will make him a great leader. If a leader is too friendly then rules won't be followed, therefore a leader must be in control and forceful in order to maintain power.
Delete"They laughed and tumbled and shouted on the mountain..."(30). This line stood out to me because I was so surprised how these young boys could be so happy with what is happening. We are not certain of how they got to the island, but they are obviously stuck and with out adults, shelter and food. I understand how young children could view this as a marvelous situation but there is always a fearful, scary side and I am surprised that everyone is so brave. I just question where these children came from and how they lived their lives before, because they are not mourning over what has happened, they seem more happy and excited for this new experience. There are many ways to express fear, and the author chose bravery, which just made me wonder about what kind of society these boys come from. Do they live in a world where there are many rules? And are they fearful of their superiors?
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything that you said. To answer your question, I think that it is just a natural instinct to be brave in a survival situation like this. Sure it would be scary at first, but then you will realize that if you are scared the whole time, it will get you no where. Also, I think that they aren't as scared because they are all about 12 years old. At 12 years old, all boys believe that they are the strongest, the smartest, and the bravest. My brother, for example, believes he can beat me up but he can't. Its just a stage.
DeleteThey will come to a realization eventually that it is harder than they think.
DeleteI completely agree that in a way this situation can be scary. I also used this quote. Have you ever thought this might foreshadow society and how children are anxious to leave their homes and become independent but yet they can’t leave until they are adults themselves? Come to think of it how will they learn from their mistakes? Maybe they need to learn from themselves. Can this relate to collage? Kids move out and go to college and they are still very young but within those few years they mature so much because if they never went they would never have the experiences they have now. Maybe this scene is for the better and they are rejoicing for the fact that they will finally be able to grow as an adult.
Delete"'When will your dad rescue us?' 'Soon he can.'"
ReplyDeleteIn Chapter 1, the boys, still unsure of how to behave with no adult presence overseeing them, largely stick to the learned behaviors of civilization and order. They attempt to re-create the structures of society on their deserted island: they elect a leader, establish a division of labor, and set about systematically exploring the island. But even at this early stage, we see the danger that the boys’ innate instincts pose to their civilization: the boys cruelly taunt Piggy, and Jack displays a ferocious desire to be elected the group’s leader.
I agree very much with what you said here. I think that you made an excellent point by stating that the children try to re-create society in the first chapter, because that stood out to me as well. Although, your last points that the boys' innate instincts cause them to taunt Piggy and cause Jack to want to take on the leadership role, I think are more due to the characters' immaturity as kids. This could also occur because they are in a novel situation that poses many dangers to them, so they have to react in ways that are new to them, and in this case, adults would behave this way as well.
Delete-Lily Cook
When Piggy protests about his authority, Ralph tries to explain his reasoning. By saying, "You're no good on a job like this" (22), like a good leader. Whereas, Jack insults him by bluntly saying that "Three's enough." This is important quote because it brings up the idea of a good leader vs. a bad leader, and, it also brings up the question: what qualifies one to be a leader? According to Dictionary.com, a leader is a guiding or directing head, as of an army, movement, or political group. Both Jack and Ralph have the characteristics of being a leader, but the question is: which is a better leader? Some may say that Ralph is a better leader, because Jack was mean and blunt towards Piggy but I do not believe that is necessarily true. A leader is a person who directs and makes decisions that is best for the group, not one that is nice. I am not necessarily saying that what Jack did was good, but I am not saying that it was bad either. In "The Prince" by Machiavelli, Machiavelli explains that a princes' responsibility is not to be liked or loved, but instead to be feared and respected. But, it is not saying that he should be cruel either. The prince is there to provide for his subjects stability and governance only. I agree with Machiavelli's ideas. This relates to the Lord of the Flies because it is not about who is nicer, but who will be able to maintain stability between the boys. With that said, I am not quite sure who would make a better leader but that is only because it is too early in the book to know.
ReplyDeleteWhen reading this chapter I also wondered who would be a better leader, however I feel that Jack may have been mean towards Piggy because he doesn’t want Piggy to get hurt during the adventure. Since both Jack and Ralph know that Piggy would not be able to handle the journey, I think that they are caring for him when they insist that he doesn’t go. I agree that it is hard to tell who would make a better leader yet, I feel that Ralph and Jack have similar traits that qualify good leadership.
DeleteRalph says "I could swim when I was five. Daddy taught me. He's a comander in the Navy. When he gets leave he'll come and rescue us. What's your father?" (pg-13) I find it strange how unworried Ralph seems about the plane crashing on this Island in the middle of know where. I also find it odd he(Ralph) thinks that his dad is going to come and rescue him and that everything will be okay. It is because of his age that he thinks like this and he is very immature.
ReplyDelete-Marcello Brattesani
I also found it strange how blase Ralph was about the plane crash. Assuming everything will work out in the end is a childish and naieve way of thinking, not the kind of outlook you would expect a 12 year old to have. Although he may be young, you would think he would be more afraid, or at least consider the possibility that his father would not find him. Instead he swims in the lagoon and relaxes. I think this reveals a little about Ralph. Perhaps before the plane crash he was spoiled, or lived in a sheltered world.
DeleteI agree Marcello. I felt that because Ralph has always been given what he wanted that because he wanted to go back home he felt that it must happen. But, I also felt that because he is so young and going through puberty he doesn't express his true feelings on the outside he seems cool, calm, and collected, but in the inside he could be panicking, everything may not be black and white.
DeleteInteresting point, Marcello. It seems to me that Ralph, and the others for that matter have not yet realized the severity of their situation and are therefore not yet properly focused on what they need to do in order to survive. The thing that fascinates me most about this is the idea that this may not just be a childish sense of hope, but rather a sense of hope that could be found in any person.
DeleteMarc, brilliant point to hit upon! I noticed there was an interesting connection between the kids and the adults that were in their lives. The adults seem to be this big, overlooking power. They taught them everything, they know how to keep them safe, and were generally always there. The fact that they no longer have this rock to stand on is very frightening, that would explain why Piggy keeps referring to his Auntie every other minute and why Ralph is so blase about his father coming to rescue them. They are both dealing with the frightening situation of living without their parents (for the time being), just in diffrent ways.
DeleteAs I started to read Lord of the Flies I immediately thought that Ralph would be the mature one and Piggy would be the immature character. Only a couple pages in I could tell that I was wrong. First, I asked my self why Ralph was being so dismissive. I thought that Ralph might be a character like Holden Caulfield, who is above small talk and thinks that it is superficial. It could have also been that he found Piggy annoying due to his appearance or persona. I’ve come to the conclusion that it had nothing to do with either of these, but that Ralph in simply juvenile. He couldn’t conduct normal social interactions with Piggy, such as something so simple as introducing himself. Piggy instigated everything productive that has so far happened in this story, for example introductions and blowing the shell. A perfect example of the levels of maturity both Piggy and Ralph have, is when they start to talk about their parents. Ralph talks about his father who is a commander in the Navy, and matter of fatedly states that he will save them. This optimism is one of a child’s, the way Ralph doesn’t factor in logistics makes his plans unrealistic and immature. Piggy on the other hand has faced the reality of his parent’s death, making it easier for his to come to terms with their current circumstances. Piggy forces Ralph to face actuality, “They’re all dead, an’ this is an island. Nobody don’t know we’re here. Your dad don’t know, nobody don’t know… we may stay here till we die.” Piggy not only states what is happening, but also flat out rejects Ralph’s fantasy of his dad saving them. Ralph is in a state of denial, while Piggy is not. I don’t know why William Golding decided to switch Ralph and Piggy personalities, in the sense of who is more mature. I think he wants his book to make readers think about appearance compared to reality. Reminding me a lot about our discussions of utopia and dystopia, because it seems as if it were one thing but it’s another. In this case Ralph seems like a utopia, do to the physical appearance described so well by Golding, but is actually a dystopia. Visa versa when it comes to Piggy.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I noticed even though it didn't quite stand out is that they are just children. I'm sure many people saw an instant connection between this chapter and Lost but there's one big difference between the two: in Lost, the people were adults all trained in different fields that when put together, allowed them to survive on the island. However, these people are merely kids-untrained and not yet fully educated kids. When the found a pig that could have potentially been their dinner, Jack could not even bring himself to kill it. He acted as if he were about to stab the pig with his knife, but then he paused in a way that the narrator described as, "...only long enough for them to understand what an enormity the downward stroke would be" (31). They cannot even bring themselves to kill a living animal-even if it may be the difference between starving and surviving. The word "enormity" illustrates how big of a challenge this is to them, and a short pause was all they needed to realize this. The difficulty they found in killing a pig really makes me question how they will manage to survive on this island.
ReplyDeleteI agree Ilan. I though that the fact that Golding put children on the island as apposed to adults is to portray the innocence of children. I think this is interesting because children are the most honest form of human-kind. So what they do and how they react to the situation is going to be really raw and how most people would like to act but feel they can not.
DeleteSomething that I thought about a lot while reading this chapter was what happens to humans when there are no laws/no rulers/no structure. Until Ralph has been elected the leader, it seems to me that everything could potentially lead to chaos. Sometimes I think about what happens when my sisters and I are left alone when my parents are out. Sooner or later we all end up fighting with each other over which TV to watch or what activity to do. However the minute that one of us speaks up and handles the situation, either by saying, "We'll play monopoly for 30 minutes and then play Life," or by me saying, "I'm the oldest so I'll decide what happens," everything is out of control. And then, once there is an established opinion or rule, my sisters will follow it. On page 17, "'You're talking too much,' said Jack Merridew. 'Shut up, Fatty.' Laughter arose." For me, I think the most significant part of this quote is the fact that the minute Jack stepped up with a straight forward opinion on something, everyone else seemed to feel comfortable chiming in. Not only did that make me think of the fact that we depend on leaders to lead the way, we depend on leaders to make decisions on our own. I'm sure that some of the people laughing wouldn't have found calling Piggy, "Fatty" funny until someone decided it was worthy of making fun of.
ReplyDeleteAudrey I completely agree with everything you said. Without a set leader in place the world becomes chaos because there isn't anyone to go for guidance. I also think that many people need a leader in their life in order to make decisions for them so they don't end up on the wrong path. In this case, if there isn't a leader guiding everyone on the island, chaos would erupt until order was restored.
DeleteGood point, Audrey. I completely agree with your point that people depend on others to tell them what to do. I guess in some ways, it makes people feel safe and comfortable to just go along with what someone says than think for themselves. I actually believe a big theme in this book is social order, which can have a huge effect on the order, or lack thereof in a society.
DeleteOne of the most striking themes of chapter one of Lord of The Flies is how it reflects human kinds need to create stereotypes. Golding uses the Lord of the Flies to dramatize our need to classify each individual even with little knowledge of the person. Golding intentionally makes Piggy awkward, shy and intellectual presenting that because he is different he is smart. Golding then creates Ralph who is everything Piggy is not; confident, socially acceptable and “normal”, because of these characteristics Ralph is dumb or considerably less intelligent then Piggy. Golding uses the boy’s conversation to represent the dynamic that society has deemed acceptable so neither boys disputes it. “’Carful! You’ll break it-“ ‘shut up.’ Ralph spoke absently”. (Page 11). Ralph dismissing Piggy so thoughtlessly is evidence of the relationship that both boys’ have been indirectly taught is acceptable. Piggy not disputing or being bothered by Ralph’s comment is further evidence that this relationship is socially acceptable. I think that because the book has to do with survival a big theme will be social order and dominance.
ReplyDelete"None of the boys could have found a good reason for this...But there was a stillness about Ralph that marked him out:there was his size, and attractive appearence.." (22).
ReplyDeleteWhen choosing a leader for their tribe, the boys natural instinct was that it should be Ralph. I found this to be fascinating, because Ralph had not demonstrated any interest as Jack had, nor capability as Piggy had. It seems they intuitively turned to Ralph because his physicial appearence made it seem like he was the best person to lead them. This theme of shalloweness is repeated throughout chapter one, with Ralph putting down Piggy and deeming him not fit to be a leader because he was chubby and seemed weak. Perhaps the author is saying something about human nature, how people can be blinded by how someone appears or presentes themselves, skewing their perception of them. In the future, the boys superficial perception of things will prevent them from seeing what is true, and therefor causing conflict.
Ruby, I totally agree. I think about this all the time when I am in a room with people that I don't know. When I'm deciding who to go over and talk to I can only make a decision based on what the people around me look like, how they stand, what they are acting like. It doesn't make us bad people and I don't actually think it makes us shallow. I just think that in some way or another being attractive like Ralph is is powerful and dominant to a lot of people. I agree that it is human nature but I don't exactly think it's a bad thing. We can't help it.
DeleteRuby, I see where you're coming from but I beg to differ. Although Jack may have shown more agressive tactics in the process of choosing a leader, that does not necessarily make him a better leader in the long run. Ralph was not as out spoken as Jack but he did display traits of being more level headed and rational. He cannot be completely dismissed as a worse leader than Jack, who when faced with the challenge of killing the pig could not even complete the task.
DeleteWhile reading this chapter what really stood out to me was that Piggy and Ralph where total opposites not just physically but, mentally. Ralph has a laid back personality and only thinks of the positive outcomes, but Piggy on the other hand thinks of the negative outcome which is they die. "'They're all dead' said Piggy, 'an this is an island. Nobody don't know we're here. Your dad don't know, nobody don't know-' His lips quivered and the spectacles were dimmed with mist. 'We may stay here till we die'" (14), this behavior causes you to question is it in human nature to think of the worst when you are in tough situation, but think of the positives that allows some comfort for yourself? Piggy's attitude is nervous, unknowing, and afraid and represents the average person who ends up stranded on an island, but is it too negative? He is making these assumptions that nobody will ever find them and that they will die, he never knows. It is also strange that the boy who never had the best life before is worried about the bad things that would happen to him and that he will never have that chance to see those people that have affected him negatively. While Ralph who had the best life doesn't show us that he worries about the outcomes and that he may never have that life again.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the first chapter of Lord of the Flies, it was clear that the plot was that these schoolboys are marooned on an island, but there were many themes to be developed. One was the relationships between all these boys. This first stood out to me when the "fat boy" revealed to Ralph that his nickname at his school used to be Piggy. Ralph "shrieked with laughter. He jumped up. 'Piggy! Piggy!" and kept calling the kid Piggy. What interested me most was when Piggy "grinned reluctantly, pleased despite himself at even this much recognition." This caught my attention because it showed the development of power immediately between the two, as Ralph is the alpha and Piggy as the subordinate. Power struggles continued to be occuring in the chapter, and most likely the book. And this happens in the world today in a large scale, and smaller so in microchasms of society that happen throughout the world.
ReplyDelete-Lily Cook
Throughout the first chapter of “Lord of The Flies,” William Golding makes clear the individuals who are in power and those who will follow. Piggy is described as knowledgeable, but powerless. He continuously annoys Ralph with stories and questions in the hopes of receiving some attention. Even though Ralph was making fun of Piggy for his nickname, “Piggy grinned reluctantly, pleased despite himself at even this much recognition” (11). This quote stood out to me because it shows that although Piggy is being made fun of, he feels happy for being acknowledged. I wonder why Piggy wants to be noticed so badly, may it be because he wants to feel better about himself but needs the approval of others? Or can it be that Piggy wants to feel cared for because he is always teased by those superior to him? On page 15 Ralph agrees with a comment made by Piggy and therefore smiles “and Piggy, taking this smile to himself as a mark of recognition, laughed with pleasure.” I think that through these two quotes Golding is trying to send the message that humans love and are constantly seeking attention and will do anything until they receive it.
ReplyDeleteI was also questioning that as well, why does Piggy want to be acknowledged so badly? I think the reason why Piggy wanted to be acknowledged even if it is by a name he doesn't like,is because as John Locke said, "My desire therefore to be loved of my equals in nature as much as possible may be." Meaning in society humans want to be accepted somewhere, even if it is a small group. And Piggy doesn't seem to have to much affection back home,and he was hoping an bit to be recognized on the island, even if it was in way he didn't really want. "Piggy, grinned reluctantly,pleased despite even this much recognition." (11)
DeleteI was curious as in why did the majority of boys choose Ralph to be the leader if the boys knew so little about him? Did they choose him because of his appearance, because he looked like he had a sense of authority? "Him with the shell."(22) "Let him be chief with the trumpet-thing."(22)This made me wonder, does society pick a leader based on the actual characteristics of that person, or is more based on how he/she presents him/herself? Is it because the person presents him/herself with control, and confidence we look up to the person as a leader, and then think about the characteristics of that person? Or is it the other way around?
ReplyDeleteI noticed this too. On Page one he is characterized as "the boy with fair hair" and "his school sweater" it gave me an impression of his wealth or status. We can see that as people choose him as a leader they stray away from Piggy, who if characterized as nerdy or insecure at times. Men look for confidence and poise in a leader before anything else because of the reliance we have on first impressions. It is very hard to know everything about a person but if they take charge and make a stand we are most likely to place our trust in them over others.
Delete"The circle of boys..."
ReplyDeleteAs I was reading the first chapter of this book, a recurring question kept popping up in the back of my mind: Why would Golding chose to create a story around not just all children, but all boys? Afterwards, i realized that it was actually a fitting cast for the overarching theme of the story: Savagery vs. Civilization. As these boys are in the age range of 6 and 12, they still are in between the ages where they are not yet adults (rules and order), but are not little kids anymore (Chaos). On an island with no parents or adults, it makes me wonder how long they can keep order. Though they did their best to create a society of their own by electing a leader etc., there are also instances where the children referred back to their natural childish instincts of picking on piggy. Perhaps the author is saying that the structure of society is not innate to humans, but must be learned. Thus, if left to themselves humans will become savage, which I feel is what Golding is trying to foreshadow in this chapter.
Good work Isaiah. I agree with your perspective of Golding's intentions of foreshadowing. The thoughts of a savage society seem like they will become present but so will the idea of leadership and control. in my opinion, this is a key point and part of the plot that golding is creating. The boys must find control and a leadership while overcoming chaos and savagery. I agree and think its clear that Golding is reflecting the ways of man in these children.
DeleteThe line I chose was "'I cant swim. I wasn't allowed. My asthma-' 'Sucks to your ass-mar!'" This line stood out to me due to Ralph's general disregard to Piggy's life. This point can be further seen through Ralph not caring to ask Piggy's name, or his dismissive attitude towards Piggy's aunt. Ralph displays traits of an individual who may otherwise be seen as conceded, or disrespectful, but instead I see him much more as a natural born leader. He tendency to blatantly ignore Piggy’s remarks and accusations were not done as an act of impertinence but rather due to the fact that his mind was elsewhere. Instead of heading to Piggy’s comments, Ralph is thinking about the current circumstances he finds himself in. Piggy is merely and afterthought, or an add-on and Ralph is more concerned about his next move. In addition, Ralph’s readiness to use the conch as an effective means of gathering other survivors further shows his leadership, proving him to be the unspoken hope of surviving the island.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you that Ralph has this natural born leader side to him. Honestly, at first I thought Ralph was being so mean to Piggy! Especially when the other kids came out and then Jack introduced this whole pecking order in which there is a leader and all the rest. I feel as his resentment towards Piggy grew when the crowd did and the title of leader became at stake. It was now this thing of being the best and most able, so having Piggy around certainly wasn't going to help his case. Its all about survival of the fittest, and sadly that means leaving behind those can't keep up with us - no matter how good natured they are.
DeleteAs I read through this chapter I saw the land these boys had landed on being referred to as "the scar" as this continued to appear I questioned why this word was being used. "... the open space of the scar." (10) "He glanced around the scar." (9) etc. I believe this word, with a negative connotation of a blemish or aftermath of a horrible thing foreshadows the events that will later take place in the story. As you start to see kids fall into their rank as Ralph shows his leadership and Piggy gets teased. "the scar" I believe is a view of the land as bad or hurtful. As no order is in place to hold the society together I see the foreshadow of an unruly and unjust place ("the scar") There needs to be justice and a system of laws for order and we see these children trying to reach that.
ReplyDeleteI think that you make a good point. It seems that the scar is foreshadowing something terrible. It already seems that people are being divided and settled into their titles as alphas or underdogs. At the beginning of the book, Ralph and Piggy have a discussion about Piggy's name. Piggy doesnt want anyone to call him Piggy but Ralph neglects to listen to him. When Ralph introduces him to the other boys, he is introduced as Piggy. This shows Ralphs leadership and Piggy's lack of means to stand up for himself. I think that these roles could play a big role later on in the book.
DeleteI found it interesting that Piggy and Ralph were so different. Their views were different and their morals seemed different, too. "'We got to find the others. We got to do something.'" Ralph said nothing. Here was a coral island. Protected from the sun, ignoring Piggy's ill-omened talk, he dreamed pleasantly." Piggy seems to be determined to find the other passengers and to figure out what happened to them. Ralph, on the other hand, just ignored Piggy's comment and blocked him out. Instead of looking at the bad or depressing part of what had happened, he is enjoying the beauty of the island and the nice part of what happened due to the plane crash. Piggy seems to be more of a realist whereas Ralph seems to be an idealist. They might even be foils for each other. Piggy is caring and curious whereas Ralph cares about himself and what he has right now. Maybe Piggy is looking at what could happen in the future if they find all the others where as Ralph is only focusing on what is going on at the moment. I think that Piggy is someone who does things that will help in the future and Ralph is someone who lives in the moment.
ReplyDeleteIt is fascinating to me that so quickly something is given a sense of power and value: the conch. "Now the shell was no longer a thing to be seen but not to be touched, Ralph too became excited" (16). To me, this represents the very human instinct or need for order. What is utilized to accomplish that sense of order is a power, in this case a conch. Most plausibly, the children rely on some sort of authority, whether they appreciate or admit it or not, and they have elected the conch to represent that authority. Even before anyone is ready to accept Ralph, a fellow person, as leader, they are more willing to allow a certain amount of authority to this conch. Even aloof from the laws and barriers of society, immediately the children try to create some sort of order and eliminate any chaos as instinctively, chaos is unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteYou are right - the children do need to have this authoritative figure around to guide them. Being children, that is completely understandable. They have been told what to do and how to do it by their parents their whole lives, so this empty space is unnerving to them. They feel as if they have to bring it up constantly- what their parents did- to bring about some sort of comfort. Piggy consistently brings up his Auntie and Ralph put his father up on a pedestal the one time he mentioned him. I noticed that this mentioning of adults ended once the three leaders -Ralph, Simon and Jack- were put into place.
DeleteIt doesn't seem to me as if they are nominating this conch as a figure of authority, but I do agree that they are in a need for an authoritative figure right away. They elect Ralph before they even really know who he is, just to have the security of being able to follow someone in case they don't know what they themselves are doing. Also in a situation where their plane has crashed and they actually are in a situation that is quite chaotic, it is only instinctual to have that sense of safety in wanting someone to possibly lead you out of this chaos.
DeleteAs Golding introduced the two key characters, Ralph and Piggy I saw some differences between them as soon as Piggy said, "We may stay here till we die." Though this seems to be a morbid and very pessimistic thought, it seemed very practical while Ralph seem worried yet held on to the thought that his father would rescue them. This shows what kind off people these characters. I thought that Piggy would say something like this because his character is one that has experienced loss and hardship with the death of his parents and the harsh treatment he got before the crash. I feel that Ralph staying hopeful seem like reason for him to be a leader. but in this case, would being optimistic make a better leader among these other children? Nevertheless, I think both ideas of looking at the situation positively and practically are both important.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with your observations on Piggy and Ralph. More so, Ralph seems to be the better option for a leader because he will put his heart and soul into trying to save the kids; whereas Piggy might give up at any point in time. I think these two characters will divide the story into two point of views on every problem they face while stranded. Do you think Piggy's realistic take on the situation will open the other charaters' eyes or cause them to turn against Piggy?
DeleteJust from reading the first chapter of this book, I can tell it's one of those stories where a group of people find themselves in a situation in which they are finally in charge of their lives, think they can do a better job of running things but end up becoming just as oppressive as the leaders before them. It's a little cliche', but interesting to watch as it unfolds nonetheless.In other words, Orwell's Animal Farm for children. Its amazing how quickly the new leaders were exposed in this story - we could see right off the bat Ralph was one of them by the way he treated Piggy. It's not just that he was mean to him, but it's how he was trying to keep him in line and keep him moving through the island. He had survival in his best interests. It only got mean when the other kids came, and they set up this expedition to go explore their surroundings and decided to exclude Piggy. When asking if he could join, Jack flatly said to Piggy "We don't want you - three's enough" (24). When Piggy persisted pursuing the boys, Ralph said "you can't come" (24). Ralph went along with the other boys, indiccated that he has chosen to side with them rather than Piggy. It was peer-pressure, in a way, that made Ralph less hesistant about deserting him. He knew that Jack and Simon were the ones he needed to stick with in order to survive (or at leats his ticket to leadership/power), so he needed to side with him.It's survival of the fittest, which can seem liken a good thing at first- eliminating the weakest so that your whole group is strong. But what happens when you don't know when to stop eliminating, and its gets vicious and oppressive?
ReplyDeleteShelli I think you make some interesting points in your response, but I don't agree with all of them. In the beginning of your response, I think you over-simplify the story and are too quick to label it. I agree that Animal Farm, among other books, has a similar storyline and message, but I don't think its fair to the book to write it off as cliche', especially when it was written in 1954. I also don't think it is a book for children, because the ideas you are getting at here are not ideas that a child would pick up on. I do agree with your second point, that Ralph is already beginning to make decisions in order to help himself appear powerful and survive. Therefore, I think its important to make it clear that although Ralph's behavior may appear mean to Piggy, it is justified. Finally, I don't think your question is legitimate at this point in the story because a) Piggy was basically eliminated from the start due to him being fat, and b) no one else besides Piggy has been eliminated yet. In fact, when Ralph chooses Simon to go with him and Jack exploring, he is saving Simon from being eliminated from the group due to his fainting and appearing weak earlier.
Delete"'You're talking too much,' said Jack Merridew. 'Shut up, Fatty'" (21) and "None of the boys could have found good reason for this... but there was a stillness about Ralph as he sat that marked him out" (22)
ReplyDeleteAfter finishing the first chapter of "Lord of The Flies", especially with these quotes in mind, I can already see the theme of characters acting based on their instincts. In the first quote, both in what Jack says and how he says it, it is evident that Jack (and the group of boys as a whole) completely ignores what Piggy has to say, even though he knows nothing about Piggy, except that he is fat. This is because, as a result of Piggy being fat, Jack finds it not only acceptable but also justified to ignore Piggy. This goes for the whole group as well, because none of the boys sitting on the platform spoke out asking to hear what Piggy had to say. In the second quote that I chose, the boys rely on their instincts to choose the leader of their newly formed group. Instead of making their choice based on logic, which would have been either Piggy (because of his intelligence) or Jack (because of his leadership and experience), they choose Ralph, who they do not have a "good reason" for making leader. I think they do have a good reason; Ralph is the instinctive choice as leader based upon his appearance and the fact that he is in control of the conch and is the one who brought the boys together. I think it is also worth noting that one of the reasons the boys did NOT choose Piggy is because their instincts told them no as a result of his being fat.
.Two quotes, which to me relate in a way, stand out within this whole chapter. "'Aren't there any grownups at all?'...'No grownups!'"(8) And "they laughed and tumbled and shouted on the mountain.’ I'm hungry.' When Simon mentioned his hunger the others became aware of theirs."(30) I feel there's a significance that ties these two quotes together. At first he only asks if there are no grownups, and it seems like he is appalled, yet once he is assured that there is none, he is excited. Later on in the chapter you can see the boys are still happy until the point that they remember they need food. They need shelter, and comfort. Naturally individuals find comfort in their mothers, and our mothers nurture us until we are an adult. Will they miss their parents? Or will they keep on convincing themselves that they can do fine without them? I feel this will later foreshadow how in society children are anxious to leave their parents and be independent and they can't do that until they are an adult themselves. And the boys in this book are not adults yet.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your analysis here. I believe that children often crave independence. However, they often don't realize the implications of freedom. Children love the idea of no rules but then they realize that freedom comes with responsibility they shy away from it. The boys in this story believe they are having a fun adventure until the harsh reality of their situation sets in. I think that these boys will need to mature a lot, and quickly or else they won't be able to survive on the island.
DeleteWhile reading the first chapter, I noticed that Golding uses symbolism to define the main characters mentioned. The "conch" belonging to Ralph, signified that he's the one chosen to bring the children together and set the rules for each. Piggy described it as "ever so expensive" while the others described it as a "trumpet thing", which can also mean that Piggy sees Ralph as someone precious, someone who he wants to be good friends with. However, Jack's symbol, the knife, made me think back to the description of his clothes, long black cloth with a cross. His symbol was very contradictory to what he probably was before the plane crash. I believe he was part of a church choir and is now speaking of killing and having no mercy. Piggy's symbol would have to be his glasses, he constantly kept taking them off and cleaning them, which mirrors his lack of self-confidence or maybe vision is a part of it. The fact that he saw the conch first and had the idea of holding a meeting with other people in the island, seems like he has the brains, but isn't listened to as often. I believe Golding purposely used symbolism in order to foreshadow the character's personality.
ReplyDeleteWhile beginning the first chapter of Lord of the Flies, I instantly noticed the emphasis on children. Shortly into the story, Piggy proves his dependence on adults whereas Ralph is a free child who already seems to be adventurous. Once Ralph asks Piggy about his expectations in going into the pool of water he says, “I didn’t expect nothing. My auntie-?" (15). Piggy immediately resorts to a excuse about his aunt or his restrictions. Ralph, on the other hand, is already searching for ways to survive. Piggy's auntie limited him from doing all sorts of activities from swimming to blowing (because of his asthma). Being bullied in his past, Piggy "asked no names"(26) of the other survivors because he was intimidated, while Ralph instigated the meeting. What seems to be happening is that the strongest and most willing of the bunch will survive on the island, but what confuses me is how the kids will end up grouping and what sides they'll take.
ReplyDeleteThe quote that stood out to me was "something dark...the creature was a party of boys marching...in two parallel lines." I choose this quote because I think that it demonstrates the natural human instinct to establish order. These young boys are lost and stranded from home, they are not full grown or matured, yet they understand that they should still behave properly even without any adults watching them. In this situation you would assume that these young boys would be running wild yet they establish an orderly system and even elect a leader. I think that society plays a huge role in this scene because they have clearly been taught by society that this is the only proper way to behave when faced with a situation where leadership is necessary.
ReplyDelete"We don't want you'" said Jack, flatly. 'Three's enough.' Piggy's glasses flashed. This quote stood out to me, because although it is obvious that Ralph is not the most sympathetic character, and seems to take more to himself then interfere with the emotions of others' he seems cruel when he and Jack tell Piggy that he cannot come explore the island with them. At this point it is hard to tell what the role of Piggy is in this story, whether or not he will be an important character isn't known yet. But even from the first chapter, you can tell how Ralph and Piggy sort of contrast each other in every way, Ralph being the independent and confident one, and Piggy being the helpless and embarrassed one, who instantly went towards Ralph to seek acquaintance. Piggy is scared of the views of other people, while Ralph keeps to himself more, and doesn't associate with others as much.
ReplyDeleteRight from the beginning, Jack is dark character and a foil to Ralph. "...the darkness was not all shadow but mostly clothing. The creature was a party of boys, marching approximately in...two parallel lines," (19). This quote portrays Jack, and his choir, as a "dark creature", while in the beginning, Ralph was described as a "fair boy". The contrast between the two may be a foreshadow of what is to come in the book, but it is also used to show the clear divide between the boys and the two different ways they want to rule the other boys. Jack wants order and his main goal is to survive, were as Ralph is more focused on getting off the island. Jack is more adapted to the island than Ralph, which makes him a more realistic thinker. Perhaps Golding is trying to say that with order, comes a more practical society, but freedom to do as you wish will make life more enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Jack is focusing on survival, however I feel that Golding expresses the idea of Human Savagery and the desire for power through his character. It shows the human instincts of selfishness and when Ralph won the election, Jack still thirsted for power... which I feel will definitely play a main role in this book.
DeleteThe line that stood out to me the most was "'When will your dad rescue us?' 'Soon he can.'"
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that Ralph is reassuring himself and the others that they will be just fine until his father comes to the rescue. Until then, the boys must be able to establish their own society WITHOUT an adult present in their little deserted island. Therefore, they must become independent as 6-12 year olds.They do so by electing their own leader (as would a society in a presidential race), split tasks they should do among the island and exploring it in general to see where they will be living for the time being. I also found quite interesting how Golding kept using the description "pink" as well. One item he described as pink was the conch. It's a trumpet like tool that was used to call the attention from the other boys that were wandering the island. I feel as if the conch can be included in this idea of independency and the personal society building of the boys. For it helped establish the law and orders that the boys made by gathering them together.