1) Ask (3) questions from the chapter that you'd really like answered. What would you like to further explore? What still confuses you?
2)
Write a response, choosing a line and explaining it's significance to
you. Please remember: no plot re-cap! Share your analysis, make
connections to the world, ask questions, discuss imagery, and deepen
your thinking.
3) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
3) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
1. How long was the fire going on that they were able to be saved so quickly?
ReplyDelete2. Do all of the boys start crying as a sign of joy, or sadness for what they've all done to others and themselves?
3. Do you think Piggy could have survived a little longer to get rescued? Or was "his timing" on point?
"'I should have thought that a pack of British boys...would have been able to put up a better show than that....'" (184)
This quote actually made me laugh a little. Of course these kids were going to become savages; they couldn't continue on like they had all the amenities of a home. The island changed them because they needed to change; and to be surprised that a group of British boys would behave like this is a little weird. British or not, I think that anyone would have acted the same way in this situation. I also thought it was really ironic that as a grownup, this naval officer (who is saying the quote) doesn't think its normal for people to fight for power like this. I think through out the story Golding is trying to portray what humans are theoretically like in the real world, and the officer not finding wars and violence normal is funny to me.
I don't think it is the boys changing so much as the boys allowing themselves to give into their inner desires. At the center of every person there is a core, and that core tells them what they want, as time has passed we have learned how to disguise our inner most core. Now we think our most basic desires are embarrassing, to talk about them wouldn't follow social standards, we would be considered freaks. Some people would say that people who let their core show are simple, and that were so much more advanced and complicated. But are we really? In my opinion were not more advanced, we've just learned more advanced ways of hiding our true 'wants'. On the island there is no social etiquette, so there is no need to hide their inner selves. I think this relates to why the killing of the cow arouses the boys in a strange way, boys of this age are just beginning to deal with coming of age conflicts such as sex. In the real world they would never be allowed to act like this, but then again they are the furthest possible thing from the real world.
DeleteQuestions
ReplyDelete1. Does the sequence of Ralph running and stopping and running again symbolize something?
2. What is this book trying to say?
3. Why is Golding's choice that all the boys are British significant?
Response
"He wondered if a pig would agree, and grimaced at nothing." (197)
I think that this quote shows how much Ralph took Piggy for granted. Piggy was Ralph's way of staying somewhat grounded to reality. Piggy was always concerned with the task at hand, he wanted to get off the island, and he always reminded people that is what they should want to. Without Piggy, the boys loose perspective and they start to forget why they do what they do. I think this book can easily be connected to "The Lottery", in that town everyone has forgotten why they partake in that awful ritual but they still do it. I'm sure at some point there was someone who had a reason for the ritual, but after they left or died no one knew anymore. When Piggy died it was their last chance for staying somewhat sane, but now no one is there to bother them with the truly important things, or talk reason into them. Now they just do what they want, when they want. I think Ralph knew that all along, but now he is really coming to terms with it.
I agree that Ralph references a “pig” to Piggy and tries to think of what Piggy would do in his situation. Adding a new insight, I think Ralph wonders what a pig would do because he literally feels like a pig. He is being hunted down and desperately tries to think like a pig if it were put into the same position. In the quote, Ralph “grimacing” at nothing is also significant because he does not like being treated as something to be hunted after. This shows how savage society on the island has gotten: to the point where humans are being hunted like pigs.
Delete1) Why did Samneric refuse to join Ralph?
ReplyDelete1) Will the boys remain savages? Or will they regain morality?
2) How will this horrifying experience affect the boys’ lives from now on?
“We saw your smoke. What have you been doing? Having a war or something?” (pg 201)
What stood out to me was how the fire that was intended to kill Ralph, instead saved the boys. For Ralph, the fire represented order and civilization because without order and civilization, the fire needed to be attended and taken care of or else it wouldn’t have been used as a signal for rescue. But the fire that Jack created sent a signal to the ship and they came to save them. This fire achieved Ralph’s goal that he failed and was unable to achieve. He tried to connect rescue with order when in fact, rescue was connected to savagery because order wasn’t what had rescued the group of boys from the island. If there wasn’t any savagery, how would have the boy’s rescue been different? Would everyone have been alive? Would the boys have eventually been saved? Sooner or would it have been later on? Could there have actually been a society and civilization?
Thanks Gabby - you just answered one of the questions from my blog post! I agree with you about how the fire represents civilization, but I think that it is more than just that. I feel that the fire represents both civilzation and savagery. The fact that fire can be tamed represents the order part of it - it can be controlled and only follows the "instructions" of the person who first initially started it. But, the side of fire that is untamed, destroying everything in its path, represents savagery. Since it was the savage part of the fire that finally got the boys rescued, this shows what a fine line there is between the division of order and savagery in a society.
DeleteQuestions:
ReplyDelete1)Golding named chapter 12, “Cry of the Hunters”, what does the title signify? Are they tears of joy or sadness?
2)Will the boys be able to become civilized again once they get back home? Will they become friends? What was the theme of the novel?
3)Why did Ralph said he is the leader when the naval officer asked who is the boss? What does this signify? What does this tell us about Ralph?
Response:
"Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man's heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy." (202)
This quote really stood out to me because it shows the change in Ralph from the beginning of the book to the end. In the beginning of the book, Ralph disliked Piggy and was irritated by everything Piggy did but now he came to a profound realization that Piggy was a true and wise friend. He finally realized how much Piggy means to him. Also, "Ralph wept for the end of innocence” because he realized that he won’t ever be the same again. His lost his innocence and he will never be able to fully regain himself because of everything he has witnessed on the island. All the violence and savage acts he has seen on the island has left him devastated. From my perspective this quote sums up the whole book, which is the loss of innocence and how the beast is within everyone and in summary everyone has savagery in them. As I finished the book, I felt bad for Piggy because he could have been rescued as well; it was only a matter of a day. Also, I recalled what Simon said to Ralph near the ocean, he told Ralph that will be rescued and, indeed, Ralph did. Simon’s predictions came true. I found it kind of funny that in the end the smoke was the one that got them rescued, Ralph was right all along!
1. What were the boys trying to accomplish by moving the rock while Ralph was in the thicket? I'm still kind of confused.
ReplyDelete2. Did the adults find the boys from Ralph's fire or from the fire that Jack's tribe started to look for Ralph?
3. How willl this experience affect the boys once they get back home - will they remain savages and ever be the same?
"But what are you going to do when you catch me?" p. 190
I chose this quote because I really find this entire situation so ironic. Ralph, a strong boy who used to be leader of the group is now on the run, fighting for his life as Jack's tribe tries to kill him in a sadistic game of cat and mouse. The fact that he is now talking to Samneric, who were members of his own tribe but are now in Jack's, shows how easy it is for someone's power to be lost in a situation. People that before were loyal to him, are now serving Jack, and are being forced to turn Ralph in themselves. This really goes to show how power is always relative. It really depends on the group of people you are ruling over, whether they are submissive to you or are rebellious. This makes me realize that there is no such thing as a more powerful person, as everyone posseses the same amount of power. On the other hand, what they do with that power is what sets them apart from everyone else, ultimatley making them leader.
This is so on point. You make a lot of good quotes, and end the post really well. Just a really strong blog post overall. The points you make make me think about whether or not it is better to have loyal servants, or servants that serve in fear (when I say servants i mean the people you lead).
Delete-What is Golding trying to convey through Ralph’s encounter with the pig’s head?
ReplyDelete-Do Samneric truly hate being in Jack’s tribe? Or do they enjoy being in the majority?
-Did all the boys in Jack’s tribe agree with the savage actions? Were some of them afraid to be outcasts?
“Percival Wemys Madison sought in his head for an incantation that had faded clean away.” (201) Percival cannot tell the officer who he is because he forgets his own name. This represents the loss of identity as a theme in the story. People tend to lose sight of who they are when they are exposed to savageness. Does our identity change when we become savage? In the beginning, Percival always told people his name and address. This is perhaps because he was in an unfamiliar place and felt more comfortable still knowing something familiar: his own identity. But later on in the story, Percival becomes a part of Jack’s tribe. He is sucked into the ideas of hunting and killing, and he forgets his old self. Not having an identity is dangerous to society. It means relying on others to set up the standards, which might not always be right. If we don’t know our identity, then we cannot make our own decisions and think reasonably about consequences on our own. Can the loss of identity lead to the downfall of civilization?
I agree with you and I think this is an interesting quote choice. I didn't really pay any attention to this quote but now I see that not only does it represent Percival, but all of the boys. All of the boys lost their identity and become obsessed with trying to be a savage hunter. Also, I think it is very interesting when the officer questions the boys being English or not because he can no longer tell who they are either. I do not think the boys want to be this way, but as you said, Percival, a long with the other boys were sucked into Jack's tribe. I think this goes a long with the idea of people trying to fit into society, I do not believe the boys wanted to be this but they just want to feel a new normal, which they lost when they crashed on the island.
DeleteWhat was the boat-ride back like, after the tribe almost brutally murdered Ralph?
ReplyDeleteWhat did the boys do with the conch?
Did the island burn down completely?
If the island was a scar, is the burning of it, its healing?
“For a moment he had a fleeting picture of the strange glamour that had once invested the beaches. But the island was scorched up like dead wood- Simon was dead- and Jack had… The tears began to flow and sobs shook him”(202)
As Ralph saw the beaches he had seen every day for months, but this time knowing he would never see them again, there was a sense of fondness in his heart. However, he quickly snapped out of this. In the moment these horrific murders and crimes probably seemed bad, but now that he was shook back into reality, the truth of the crimes really set in. I think the boys will quickly readjust to regular life, quicker than they had adjusted to life on the island. Once this happens, the reality and brutality of what was perpetrated will surface and most likely haunt them for the rest of their lives. Being stranded on an island is a traumatic enough experience, but to know that you are capable of such savagery, especially at such an early age, could be nothing of jarring and scarring.
I totally agree with you. I think it's interesting to look at why they turned to this savagery? Does this say something about human nature? I honestly have no idea and need help answering these questions. Why would they instantly turn back to their old lives when they had set out new ones on the island, with no pursuit to return? By the way to answer your question about the conch, you might have missed it, but it was smashed to pieces when Piggy died.
DeleteGreat point! I feel like this moment was where Ralph realized that this was reality not any type of nightmare or dream. He saw that this savagery has really changed his life and i agree with the fact that this was a whole traumatic experience for him, furthermore at such a young age to go through this. I feel the boys will feel a sign of relief, because they don't have to struggle for survival anymore, but go back to their regular lives
Delete1. On the last page Golding says, "But the island was scorched up like dead wood-Simon was dead-and Jack had..." Why does Golding not mention what Jack did, is he referring to something specific or everything that Jack has done?
ReplyDelete2. When Ralph steps forward as the leader when the officer asks, why does nobody, not even Jack, protest?
3. Is Jack the savage referred to many times in the last chapter, if so, why does Golding choose to no longer say his name?
"What was the sensible thing to do? There was no Piggy to talk sense. There was no solemn assembly for debate nor dignity of the conch?"
I chose this quote because I feel that this is an important moment of realization for Ralph. Throughout the book everyone including Ralph would make fun of Piggy. Ralph was actually the first person on the island to make fun of Piggy. Piggy would always try and talk sense into the group but no one ever listened and Ralph would most of all get annoyed with Piggy's suggestions. Now, stuck in a bad situation, Ralph realizes that everything Piggy would say and do was the most reasonable thing to do. Also, going back to the last chapter, the sea took Piggy's pink body, pink symbolizes harmony, meaning that Piggy held the last bit of harmony the island had. Also, the conch no longer symbolizing power and no more Piggy left Ralph hopeless and alone. I think that if the officer did not come to rescue the boys, then Ralph would have given up and even bowed down to Jack.
I completely agree, Ralph never truly realized how important Piggy was tot he flow of their society until he was gone. The boys all took Piggy's ideas for granted, however they were the most sane ideas all along. Now that Ralph is alone, he sees that Piggy was the one boy who really kept his head about him throughout the entire journey. I disagree with what you said last though. If the navel officer had not come to the boy's rescue, I am pretty sure Ralph would not have been given the opportunity to side with Jack and would have instead been killed. The boys clearly posses no mercy, so I find it unlikely they would think reasonably at this point in the book.
DeleteWhy does Golding end the book by describing the officer's thoughts and actions?
ReplyDeleteWhat is significant about the officer and his reaction to the boys?
What is the significance of the island being almost completely destructed by humans?
"A little boy who wore the remains of an extraordinary black ca on his red hair and who carried the remains of a pair of spectacles at his waist, started forward, then changed his mind and stood still" (234).
This quote stood out to me because I was surprised that after Ralph announced himself as "boss," Jack did not say a thing. Although I think this does signify a change in Jack, I think it mostly represents the insecurities that Jack has always had. Seeing the officer and being reminded of adults and the real world reminded Jack of rules and regular society and humbled him. In this passage, the true chief (Ralph) came forward, and even Jack was able to recognize it. Jack's sort of leadership did not come naturally to him, it was forced and violent to the point that he manipulated many of the boys into joining him just because it made them feel powerful. Golding references "the remains of an extraordinary black cap" to remind us of Jack's past life and his position on the island early on in the book. Jack carrying the remains of Piggy's glassed shows him for the savage and murderer that he has become. I was also surprised that Ralph had the guts to declare himself the leader of the group, and that no one insisted otherwise, not even Jack.
Wow, your response makes a lot of sense. The fact that Jack did not take responsibility that he so desperately yearned the entire book surprised me as well. I think this symbolizes the power struggle faced throughout life. When the going gets tough, you gotta keep on going!
Delete1. In the time it took for the ship to see the fire and rescue the boys, how did the island not burn itself out?
ReplyDelete2. Why does Golding keep referencing that the boys are British?
3. At the end when the navel officers asks who the leader is, why does everyone still feel it's Ralph? Why doesn't Jack protest?
"Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of a man's heart..." (p.202)
I think this quote shows just how much this experience has impacted Ralph. He realizes that he will never see the world the same way again. He has been exposed to the evils and cruelty of man, and will no longer think of things as pure and wholesome. The "end of innocence" is him maturing and accepting the evils in the world. He knows nothing is ever as simple or innocent as it may seem, and he will forever see life through this new lens. The reference to the "darkness of a man's heart" is about the savagery that went on while the boys were ont he island. Their true demons were exposed, and the anger and brutality within each boy came out. All humans posses an inner beast, and Ralph unfortunately became aware of this.
I agree with you because this horrifying experience has transformed Ralph completely from the way he sees life, to the words he'll say, the way he'll act, and even the way he'll think. But could he ever be able to return to how he was before? Why or why not? I think Golding wrote "Lord of the Flies" to show that humans are somewhat naturally evil or bad, and I think that is what Ralph at the end of the novel, realizes. He learns that everyone has evil in them, in everyone exists a demon, a beast.
DeleteWhat does the author mean by the line that "Ralph wept for the end of innocence..." (202).
ReplyDeleteWhat does "Roger sharpened a stick at both ends" signify?
What is the main reason the boy's order broke up into savagery in the first place? Is there a true reason at all?
"Roger sharpened a stick at both ends" (190). I believe this line could signify countless things, so I'll choose one interpretation I thought of. Throughout the book was see Roger as a slightly confused character. He took interest in hurting things, or coming close to hurting things. A regular spear would have on sharp side and one blunt side. One lethal and one that can hurt, but doesn't give a deathly blow. I think the fact that Roger sharpened both sides shows a turning point in his character. It's a turning point from a boy who may be mislead and hunts pigs, but isn't overrun by complete savagery. Now he is. There is no side to him that isn't for pain and killing. I'd like to believe that there is a good side to everyone. That there is catharsis and enlightenment for everyone, but this passage suggests the opposite. Was Roger truly evil at heart? Was he born that way, or was it his surroundings that created the sadistic monster he is? Or is he even fully bad? Earlier in the book the author portrays Roger as even one to rebel against authority, but now he is the authority. I may be trailing off, but is Roger's transformation a relation to his newfound power, or is his newfound transformation a relation to his power? We saw how Jack's need for power and control has affected him and his leadership. Power changes people. It honestly seems to me that Roger is a sadistic, evil kid. Confused, yet still evil. I don't think it's just a strive for dominance and spreading of fear. I believe people are born neutral and have free will. What they choose to do with their free will is up to them and can result in good or bad. Roger's progression/regression, whichever you may call it, has displayed him as an evil child. Why that is, I do not know.
I agree. I think, or at least hope that you are right that all people have free will and the ability to make their own decisions. Even so we are brought up in a way that teaches us blind obedience, sometimes under the name respect. The way we have been programmed by our authority-run society is to do what people tell us, or to suffer the consequences. I think Roger takes these rules and applies them to island life. Even so, he is not drawn to Ralph, who is less powerful and yet the leader, but is drawn to Jack because of his dominance and confidence, as well as from the pressure of the group. Now that Roger is part of this group, he has unwavering loyalty, because he knows the punishments which could be inflicted upon him, and chooses this because it is the safe way out. When people are put in this position it can often lead to bad decisions, and even a brainwashing of sorts. This is exactly what happens in peer pressure situations: someone is drawn to a bad decision because of the power or popularity of it. Although this is terrible that this pressure and attraction to dominance and power exists and often overtakes society, it is important to stay separate from the decisions of the group and stay true to ones own beliefs.
DeleteI like the analysis you drew of Roger, and I think the way you imagine him-sadistic and a bit evil-is pretty accurate, but I think the stick sharpened on both sides has a bit of a simpler purpose. I think the point may have been that they were going to ram the other end in the ground, like they did with the pig skull, and use ralph's head on it this time around. To answer your first question too, I think that Ralph was weeping for the end of innocence because he will never really be the same again. It was sort of similar to some of those short stories we read, like Araby, where the character loses his innocence once he is exposed to the reality of the world and often the adult side of things. Similarly, Ralph is exposed to the horrors of man while he is on the island, and cannot hold onto his naieve and childish views of humans and the world at large anymore (which are, for most kids, that the world is a whole lot nicer than it really is).
DeleteQuestions:
ReplyDelete1. When referring to Jack and the Hunters, Ralph says "No. They're not as bad as that. It was an accident"(213) why do you think he thinks Piggy's death was an accident? Does this goes back to Roger being the character that killed Piggy not Jack.
2. Why is so significant that Roger sharpened both ends of his spear?
3. Do you think the Beast changes from a man, to Jack, to a savage on purpose or do you think Golding on uses the beast as a source of power for Jack?
Quote:
"But the island scorched up like dead wood- Simon was dead and Jack had...Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of a true, wise friend called Piggy."
Ralph is both overjoyed by this rescue, but sad by the loss of Simon, Piggy , and his innocence. He realizes that life will never be as pure, or white as it once was and I think that's why Golding always describes the island as being pink, white and green. Ralph also faces evil in Jack and realizes that if he died, that Jack and the Hunters would of probably never got saved. This also shows you that Jack still isn't suited for power, because at the end of the story Ralph still claims his role as chief. Also, Jack didn't actually kill Piggy he just makes it seem that way, and he never really abuses Samneric either. It seems like Jack just wants to use his power to dominate over others but when he is in a role of people of his same status he feels inferior to them, and that makes him angry and disappointed in himself.
I agree with you! Also, I talked about the same quote you did. I think Ralph, indeed, is a better chief/leader than Jack is. Ralph is a nice chief, he doesn't abuse his power unlike Jack who has a big ego and he exploits his power by harshly punishing people. I'm confused by the reference to the colors pink, white, and green. I'm not sure on what those colors symbolize.
DeleteWhen Ralph is killing the boys in his defense, is it only for the sake of defense, or is it also for the sake of revenge?
ReplyDeleteWhere will the boys go,and what will the boys do once they leave the island? That boat ride back will be very intense...
When it describes the boy with red hair and the remnants of a black cap, and the broken glasses, is it referring to Jack? If so, why isn't he proud to step forward as chief? Why doesn't he challenge Ralph, any longer, for the position?
Once Ralph tells the officer that two boys have been killed the "officer leaned down and looked closely at Ralph. 'Two? Killed?' Ralph nodded again. Behind him the whole island was shuddering with flame. The officer knew, as a rule, when people were telling the truth" (201). I think this quote is especially significant in relation to the description of the boys once the officer comes. Throughout the book I almost forgot they were young boys, because of their brutal, violence, and the way they operate, so like a war fought in the real world. But once the officer arrives they are described as "little boys" and "the kid" as well as their warpaint, and their spears described as "colored clay" and "sharp sticks in their hands". This shows a real difference in the way they see themselves, before the officer comes, and the way they see themselves after he comes, in addition to the way the officer sees them. Because he sees them as little boys, and thinks that they are not capable of such great barbary as murder, he is amazed that there have been two murders. When Ralph nods to tell the officer that two people have actually been killed the fire has enveloped the island. The fact that it says 'shuddering with flame' almost makes it seem like this fire is symbolic of the destruction that occurred,and is proof to the officer of the deaths and violence caused by the boys. The part that stands out the most to me is that "the officer knew, as a rule, when people were telling the truth." This shows that even thought the boys may have lost their innocence and feel like adults, as well as having dealt with very adult issues like death. they still think of adults as almost different creatures. The officer comes as a sign of authority, and the boys view this as almost magical, in that he has the ability to know, always, when a person is telling the truth. It may be that they always thought this about officers, or adults in general, but as the first interaction back with authority, adults,and the outside world, the boys may just be amazed at the idea of such a powerful person in their midst, and don't know what to make of the order that has so abruptly descended upon them.
1. What is the significance of having Ralph analyze himself multiple times?
ReplyDelete2.How come Sam and Eric helped Ralph?
3. Why did Ralph say he was in charge?
"He saw white drill, epaulettes, a revolver, a row of gilt buttons down the front of a uniform."
This stood out to me the way Golding introduced the first adult in the novel. The reaction of the kids also intrigued me, because suddenly there attitude changed, and you could tell that they were becoming more civil. Also they way the soldier had this carefree personality and took their situation a bot jokingly was a bit disturbing even after being told about the two deaths.
In response to your third question, I think that Ralph said he was in charge because he always felt that he was. The boys voted him to be the leader, which made him in charge in the first place. Jack became chief because he said he was, and he gained followers because of his ability to hunt, not because the other boys wanted him to be leader. Up until the conch fell and broke, Ralph had a dream of getting his power back because with the conch he felt he had some sort of greater power over everyone. Once it broke it began to become real to him that he was no longer the leader, but it never fully sunk in. The navy official came so shortly after the conch broke that Ralph was not used to having the conch to fall back on as a way of power, but it was habit to say he was in charge. Also in a way this was a game between Jack and Ralph, and saying yes would cause him to win.
DeleteI think Samneric help Ralph out because they weren't truely part of Jack's tribe by choice they were feared into having to be part of his tribe. They wanted to be with Ralph and to show him that they were loyal Samneric tell him to be careful and to go away for his own good. They obviously don't want anything bad happening to him so they try helping him. They have to paint this image that they don't care about Ralph to Jack so that their own lives won't be at risk.
DeleteBut I do agree that when grown ups show Golding shows that people naturally have two sides to them; the one when they're alone or among their friends and the one when they're around adults/parents. I find it interesting as well how the naval officer didn't seem so concern with the condition the boys were in he just made a comment about how they were having fun and playing games.
Questions:
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of the boys reaction to the officer on the last page?
Why did Golding decide to end the story with a fire before the officer came?
Why was Ralph the uncontested leader of the boys at the end of the story, even with so much conflict throughout?
Response:
"[Ralph]... glimpsed one of them, striped brown, black, and red, and had judged that it was Bill. But really, thought Ralph, this was not Bill."(183)
I found this quote to be really interesting. As Ralph describes a boy he knew, Bill, he uses the symbol of the face paint that Jack's tribe wears. Historically, face paint has been used by many different types of people to instill fear. For Ralph, he goes on to compare what he is now, to what he was before; "A boy in shorts and shirt". These quotes describe not only the transformation that Bill made, but all of the boys, who were no longer themselves, but a shell of what they were before.
I totally agree! Bill, like all the boys, has become someone completely different than the schoolboy he once was. This change begs the question of how the boys will be affected by their experience on the island once they are home. Will they ever fully recover or be the same? This quote really captures how the boys were like lemmings, conforming to fit in with Jack and the savages. Be yourself, Bill, be proud of who you are!
Delete1. How many of these boys will be traumatized for the rest of their life
ReplyDelete2. Why did Ralph suddenly get so mature and confident when he was on the run from the rest of the boys
3. What was Ralph's encounter with the skull at the end supposed to be about
"'Who's boss here?' 'I am,' said Ralph loudly. A little boy who wore the remains of an extraordinary black cap on his red hair and who carried the remains of a pair of spectacles at his waist..." Page 284
I thought this was an interesting quote for two reasons. First, there is the fact that Ralph announces himself as the leader, and is not challenged by Jack. This may say something about Jack--perhaps he was always slightly afraid or jealous of authority, and wanted to prove himself by being in a choir, or leading the boys on the island. Now, when Ralph, who has proven to perhaps be an even better leader than Jack, confidently claims that he is the boss among the boys, Jack is too fearful of being rejected once more to say something about it. Also, the officer who is present may be deterring him as well. The second thing that stuck out to me was how seeing the boys from the officers perspective suddenly made the whole thing seem totally different. From Ralph's eyes, the last chapter was an intense struggle between life and death, and it truly seemed frightening and serious when the tribe comes after him. Once the officer steps on the island, the boys are described as little, and he says they are playing "fun and games". Their spears and paint seem like toys rather than weapons. What this does is highlight how the savagery and cruelty embedded in human nature is apparent at any age. It does not take a grown man to be violent and animalistic--instead, Golding highlights how these characters are visible in even children, stuck with us from birth.
ReplyDelete1) Did Ralph secretly always rely on Piggy? Or did he think he was useless up until he was gone?
2) Why does Golding begin to refer to the boys as “savages”? Jack has always been violent, but not all the boys have. Is it only because that is the way Ralph now views everyone?
3) Why are there so many connections between the boys and pigs? What do they mean? Is it simply that they share characteristics, or that the longer they have been on the island, the more they become like the pigs? After all, the pigs were the only other animals to really survive on this island.
“He knelt among the shadows and felt his isolation bitterly. They were savages it was true; but they were human” (185).
Now that Ralph does not have Piggy, Sam or Erik by his side he feels isolated. Ralph may feel abandoned because, although it was not by choice for everyone to leave him to himself, in the end, he had almost no one to fall back on. This quote shows how much of a downfall he went through, with the bitter isolation. In the beginning of the book, everyone wanted Ralph to be their leader, but now no one is really allowed to even speak with him. I wonder if the boys would prefer Ralph as a leader over Jack? Would they have ever considered leaving Jack if they had not been found? Was the only reason they stayed away because they were afraid of becoming enemies with Jack, or did they genuinely believe that Jack would be the best leader?
Good observation, but to answer to answer your question if the boy’s preferred Jack or Ralph as a leader. I think overall the boys will probably prefer Jack over Ralph because, Ralph was not all about structure, rules and discipline. He was more of going for an adventure, having no set of rules that provided the boys with a type of adrenal rush. Which the boys liked more instead of building huts and doing work even though it will benefit the boys towards the. But, in the last three chapters I also came to question that if the boys still preferred as a leader even if he had despotic characteristics or just feared of him? And joined his tribe for their own safety.
Delete1.Why is Ralph unable to speak at the end? Is it shock, or confusion, or a little of both?
ReplyDelete2.Does the sequence before Ralph runs into the officer signify that Ralph was becoming savage?
3.What does the soldier gripping his weapon represent?
"A little boy who wore the remains of an extraordinary black cap on his red hair and who carried the remains of a pair of spectacles at his waist started forward, then changed his mind and stood still."(201)
I feel like if a single line could sum up my feelings about this story, this would be it. Jack spent the entire time on the island trying to be the leader, and trying to control everyone. Once he gets as close as he can to this goal, an older, more superior figure comes and he isn't so tough anymore. This shows how seriously everything was being taken. Everyone was just a kid, and once an adult(moderator-y) came, the whole game is changed. Jack doesn't even want to get blamed for what he did, because inside his young mind, it could just be a game. Younger people, especially, have a hard time taking responsibility for their actions, and this is a good example of how unfit to rule young people, especially children, are to make serious decisions, and how quick they can be swayed. Will Jack ever take responsibility for the death of Piggy, and maybe Simon?
I completely agree that this line puts the whole story into perspective. This entire book has been building these little boys up in your mind and creating a picture of a much older people, and then with this line you are abruptly reminded that they are only little kids. To answer your question, I think the adult holding the weapon shows the similarity to this grown man with fancy clothes and the little boys with their painted faces on the island. Both costumes act as masks that justify any immoral action. You can also see the likeness between the two when Golding describes both of them holding their weapons, the captain and his gun and the boys and their spears. I believe that golding makes this similarity because this little island is an analogy for people everywhere and especially people in wars. The captain criticizes the boys for "having a war" but he is completely hypocritical because isn't he fight in a war this very moment? isn't that the reason the boys were originally on the island?
Delete1) Why the title of this chapter “Cry of the Hunters” significant?
ReplyDelete2) What is the significance of Jack sharpening both ends of the stick when he is about to fight Ralph?
3) What is going to happen next after the boys are rescued from the island?
“The officer… a little embarrassed and turns away to give the boys time to pull themselves together, letting his eyes rest on the “trim cruiser in the distance.”(202)
This quote stood out to me because, it could interpret two different meanings. And, I liked hoe Golding uses this line as the last line of the book because as I said the reader has the option to interpret ways. My, first interpretation while I was reading this line was how the naval officer could represent how adults could turn a blind eye on situations where there are children involved. Because, sometimes in society children are considered as not huge impact on adult’s decision, especially in simpler times where the main focus was the war. Evidence that could support this interpretation is how no one came out looking for neither the boys nor the missing plane. No one really cared on how a group of about 15 boys disappeared mysteriously. (Where are their parents?) and the Naval officer did not show any signs of emotions when he arrived at the scene more as of a sarcastic remarks” British boys aren’t you-wouldn’t have to put a better show than that.”(202)An, other interpretation that I have thought for this line was he was a symbol for salvation and the return human kind/civilization This naval officer could have been a wakeup call for the boys on how inhumane that have acted or what animals they have become.
What was Golding's inspiration for writing this book?
ReplyDeleteWhy does Ralph tell the officer he is leader when it seems like he lost that position to Jack?
Will Jack Remain the same now that he is going back to the real world with grown ups? Will the idea of hunting still be a necessity to him or stay in his mind?
"(...)Ralph went for the end of innocence, the darkness of man's heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy" (202).
This quote stood out to me from this chapter and a few other's but I can see this as more significant. I think it's interesting that Golding says themes that were basically occurring throughout the whole book; the loss of innocence between the boys, the evil/bad in all humans, and the last one maybe isn't necessarily a theme but I think it's referring to the lost of a friend or not realizing what you have till you lose it which in this case to Ralph it's Piggy.
This quote shows me that Ralph knew that he was getting rescued and would return back home but that doesn't seem to be what was crossing his mind. What was crossing mind seems to be what he has gotten out of being on the island. He won't be the same as the boy who first got stranded on the island, his innocence is lost now that he has witnessed two deaths, a kid go missing, and do things that a typical boy wouldn't do at all in his lifetime. Which to me shows he will be effected when he goes back home; his mentality has changed and views because of what has occurred on the island. He sees that even a choir boy has bad in him it just took certain circumstances for that evil to come out. He also I think learns the lesson that you don't know what you have until it's gone. He lost his "wise friend named Piggy" but before when Piggy was actually around he didn't appreciate him, he made fun of him at first but slowly grew fond of him. Now that he witnessed him falling through the air he sees that Piggy was a wise friend to Ralph and that Piggy never left his side, but it took his death for that to even cross his mind.
Golding definitely demonstrates through out the book how certain circumstances can make you lose your innocence and see things completely different. He shows that you see the real reality eventually but you need to go through certain situations to realize this reality.
Questions:
ReplyDelete1) Why did the author decide to refer to Samneric as Sam and Eric in the last chapter?
2) What is the significance to Ralph not knowing how many boys are on the island?
3) Why does no one contest to Ralph saying he's leader? Is it because they are ashamed of what they've done?
" A semicircle of little boys, their bodies streaked with colored clay, sharp sticks in their hands, were standing on the beach making no noise at all.
"Fun and Games," said the officer"
This quote stood far out in my eyes because it gives us another view on the book. When an adult looks in and follows the boys it seems quite childish. If you think about it they became obsessed with power and started to run around with spears with painted faces killing pigs. This seemed childish until Ralph told the officer that two kids were dead. I feel that the Officer didn't take them seriously but society is the same way that the civilization on earth is like. Everything that happened on the island happened one time or another so I feel that the Officer had no right to look down at the boys. If you think about how the way civilizations formed over thousands of years was really compressed into the short span of time the boys were on the island.
I agree, I think that Golding does a very good job of contrasting the images of the thirst for power and the childish actions that the officer sees. The officer sees them as very young and because of that very innocent and pure, something that we know not to be true. One question I had was why did Golding want to have the children seem so weak and small when the officer comes, when they have shown the opposite the entire story? Another thought I had when I read this quote was the impact of the idea that the officer was the utmost authority and how even though they were able to mess with the authority of the island, they do not dare mess with the power of the man. This is shown throughout society where people may seem very strong but when they see someone who is truly more powerful then they are they immediately become as weak as everyone else.
Delete1. Why do they mention Roger sharpening both ends of the stick?
ReplyDelete2. Why did Samneric not join Ralph when he offered escape?
3. Why did Ralph analyze the pig's skull at the beginning?
"Daylight might have answered yes; but darkness and the horrors of death said no. Lying there in the darkness, he knew he was an outcast"(215)
I felt that this quote was significant of the thoughts Ralph had about himself. In this book daylight and darkness have been mentioned, I feel as if darkness for Ralph is danger but towards Jack and the others it's a way of escaping reality. Ralph is feeling like an outcast because he is not part of Jack and his hunters, and he is the only one to realize that Jack is dangerous towards this island and everyone on it. When "Horrors of death" are mentioned i think of the cruel things Jack has done towards people with his savage-like behavior. Ralph is afraid of facing these horrors of death himself.
I agree with this connection and feel as though there are other examples throughout the story that can easily connect to this. One that I can think of right away is the fact that Jack and his tribesman have a cave that is not illuminated and they must protect. They protect the darkness instead of fearing it. Similar to when the boys go hunting for the beast a few chapters back, the boys must not be scared of the darkness at night.
Delete1) on page 184 Ralph mentions a connection between himself and Jack that somehow leads to Jack never letting Ralph be an outcast. what is this connection and why would it stop Jack from letting Ralph live freely?
ReplyDelete2) What does the braking of the pigs head symbolize?
3) what is the significance of stars in this chapter/portion of the book? Stars are mentioned on pages 171, 186, and 188.
In this chapter I think Ralph becomes the pig. The two quotes that interested me were "Rodger sharpened the stick at both ends" (190) and "Hide then. He wondered if the pig would agree" (197) These two quotes stood out to me because the first one is about how the savages have diminished Ralph to the level of a pig and the second one is about how Ralph himself now sees himself as no more then a hunted animal. In this part Ralph is desperately trying to use his rationality but the hunters are preventing him from thinking. I think that Rodger sharpening the stick at both ends because he intends to stick Ralph's head on the stick, just like he is with the pigs head, one end in the ground and the other in Ralph's head. This is why it is significant that RODGER sharpens the stick and not Jack. I don't think that Ralph Jack would kill Ralph because of this mysterious connection.
Why is there is so little reference of Jack in the last chapter? Why does Golding only follow the actions of Ralph when he has followed both throughout the story?
ReplyDeleteWhy does Golding decide to end the book at its true climax? Does he mean anything by this abrupt savior of the children or was it simply his writing style?
When asked who is the leader Ralph responds that it was him. Why does he say that he is leader when he knows that he is not? Does he not want to be remembered by the actions of Jack?
"'Fun and games,' said the officer." (200) I found this quote to be very significant because of truth that lies behind it and because of how evident it is in human nature. The children started on this island with two goals in mind, to get rescued and have some fun as they waited. These goals are evident for some time until they become jumbled and confused. The boys soon think that they are on the island to have fun and then get rescued, this thought only triggered others that had them forget the idea of rescue entirely. I found it ironic that they are saved in many ways by accident and without their playing their game they may have never been rescued at all. The game that they have played seems so real and intense to everyone playing until they get confronted by an adult. When the man comes the children have an immediate reaction of regret and embarrassment because they understand better than anyone that they got lost in the fun and game of the experience. It is as if they understood that they should not be playing their game but they needed an adult to come and tell them to stop to truly act on their regretful thoughts. Golding uses a very innocent tone when the officer says it, as if to say that these children were harmless and could do no wrong. The idea that children are depicted to be very innocent and pure shows itself in our society as well and I think that Golding attempted to attack this very thing in the story. This story has many messages about society but it also speaks about the purity of children and how a truly fun and real game can motivate someone to do things they do not intend to.
1. What happened to Sam and Eric?
ReplyDelete2. why does Jack and Roger want to kill Ralph?
3. why does Roger sharpen BOTH ends of the stick? why not just one end?
“We saw your smoke. What have you been doing? Having a war or something?
I find this quote really ironic. When I read this quote it kind of had a little bit of sarcasm in his tone. He’s asking are they having a war “jokingly” but Ralph’s answer surprise him because these little kids are actually in a war. It reminds me of how adults usually think that kids are innocent they don’t know much, but here these kids kills two of the other kids which shows that they are not so innocent after all.
I agree, I think that my quote goes along with yours because I really don't understand this guy that is talking to Ralph, like how does he really think that the smoke was a game and they were just "playing" war. I mean like come on I know people had to have heard about all these school boys that have gone missing in a plane they should have put two and two together and realized who they were.
DeleteI think your interpretation of this quote is really interesting, because when I read this part I didn't get that from the text. I also think that adults forget that kids behave the way they see adults behaving. This is interesting because there is a real adult war going on at this same time. The boys know war really well. The officer is very surprised that the boys really were fighting, but being a naval officer he has probably been part of the adult war going on.
Delete1.What did Roger do to Sam and Eric?
ReplyDelete2.Are Sam and Eric not painted like the other savages because they feel that they really aren't one of them?
3. How long were they really on the island? Why didn't they ever keep track of the days?
"'Fun and games,'" said the officer" (200)
I think that this part of the story is significant because at this scene its like you are getting the perspective of outside eyes, because to this officer it looks like all the boys are just playing a game and not looking like Ralph is basically running for his life before the savages get him. Also I think that it was kind of weird for the officer to come to the conclusion that they were playing games like they were on an island in the middle of the ocean how was that a game? He should have been worried about them and why they were there in the first place and with no adults present.
1) What will happen to the boys when they return home? Will they change again?
ReplyDelete2) What does the officer mean when he says "I should have thought that a pack of British boys...would have been to put up a better show than that?" (201-202)
3) What does it show about the boys that they don't know how many people are in their group?
"He staggered to his feet, tensed for more terrors, and looked up at a huge peaked cap. It was a white-topped cap, and above the green shade of the peak was a crown, an anchor, gold foliage," (200). This quote really stood out to me because of Golding's use of color. He mentions three colors, white, green, and gold, which all represent very pure, happy things. White often means holy, or bliss and happiness. Green represents life, nature, fertility, well being. And gold is a color of Faith, healing and blessing. All these things fit the moment very well. If the officer hadn't shown up Ralph would have faced a vicious death. Instead, this man saved his life (green), which brought Ralph great happiness (white), and was a blessing (gold) for Ralph. The whole moment of when he saw the officer was a very happy one because Ralph knew he and the other boys were saved and he would no longer have to worry.
Why are Sam and Eric finally separate?
ReplyDeleteWill Jack still have the crazy mind set once he returns, or better yet, will all the boys loose their survival mind set and go back to things being normal?
Is there a larger point than just basic civilization and human interaction in specific situations?
"'Never mind what's sense. That's gone--'''(188). This chapter gave me a lot of questions. Some were what the focus on flesh was, was it similar to that of all the references of pink throughout the book, because flesh is associated with pink? Significance of darkness versus the light? On another note, this quote stood out to me, especially as my closing response/blog post because it admits defeat. The boys are defeated and they know they are as well as their chances of rescue/survival. This is proven through the fact that they are ready to kill one of their own...yet again. I also like this quote because it shows a change from the beginning of the book to the end, evolution of character, sam and eric now developed enough to speak for themselves, risk giving out significant secret information etc. There are many more reasons as to why this is a great quote, especially for the last chapter to summarize transitions.
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ReplyDeleteQuestions:
ReplyDelete1.) How come Sam and Eric helped Ralph? even though there apart of another tribe now.
2.) What does the breaking of the pig's head symbolize?
3.) What inspired Golding to write this book?
Conclusion:
"We saw your smoke. And you don’t know how many of you there are" (201).
Even though this is a small quote I find it really important. The first part of it, I really find it ironic, because the fire was Ralph's way of getting rescued, and finally he is getting rescued but the fire was a fire for Jack’s attempt to kill Ralph. And the second part of the quote I think really strikes ralph because we have been discussing the smoke and they made the smoke by piggy’s glasses and it is just very sad and ironic overall. I really did not except the book do end like this, how is the fire that Ralph relied on so much, what ended up saving him but not in the way he wanted. This was a very interesting book and I want to go into more detail about this topic.