1) Ask (3) questions from the chapter that you'd really like answered.
2)
Write a response, choosing a line and explaining it's significance to
you. Please remember: no plot re-cap! Share your analysis, make
connections to the world, ask questions, discuss imagery, and deepen
your thinking.
3) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
3) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post!
1. Why did the author make the last chapter so ironic?
ReplyDelete2. What is the significance of a soldier fighting a war being disgusted by the boys doing the same thing?
3. Do the soldier naive ideals represent anything about the author and his experience with other solders during the war?
The line that struck me most in this incredibly unexpected chapter was the first the second thing the officer say to Ralph "fun and games" on page 200. Any outside observer could clearly see that a boy I being chased by a group of boys painted in war paint and carrying spears and that half of the island is on fire; none of this seems like fun and games. This last chapter is possibly the most ironic way to end the book the solider shows disgust that "English boys" would behave in such an uncivilized manor yet he along with most of Europe is fighting an extremely vicious war. Golding uses this irony to represent his views on how the theme of hypocrisy is present throughout class separation (because they are boys they shouldn't being do this but the adults can). It's also interesting that Golding makes the officer seem slightly naive and not too bright considering he fought in the war. The ending of The Lord of the Flies is not entirely satisfying but after thinking about it I believe that a satisfying ending would not fit and would seem out of place. Ultimately the boys have all been permanently changed but I don't think that the island has given them new personality traits only extremely exaggerated the ones they had once they arrived on the island.
Kate, I agree with you that the ending was not satisfying. The idea you bring up about the officer and the boys is interesting. I think that this idea of boys being stranded on an island is very unrealistic and I think that is why the officer is acting the way he does. It is defiantly interesting that Golding left us with this idea.
DeleteKate I agree the ending was somewhat unsatisfying. I think that it could have been worse and the the way that the author was going in the end their were only a couple options to how he could end the story. It confuses me why this officer seems to act as if he watched their whole stay on the Island, as if they were being taped and watched the whole time.
Delete-Marcello Brattesani
Lily Cook
ReplyDeleteKate-I agree that this chapter was extremely ironic, and that hypocrisy is definitely a leading theme. I think that Golding might have portrayed the officer in a naive way to show that figures of authority often do not display proper leadership, which is also a running theme in the book.
I disagree, I think that most outsiders would assume, like the officer, that the boys were playing. I think this is due to their age, and the innocence that is supposed to come with that age. The boys would never have acted so savage with out their experiences on the island, and the officer could not have known what they went through. I think Golding purposely did this, because it reminds you of what the boys have turned into compared to what they should be.
ReplyDelete1. Will the boys ever recover from their experiences on the island?
ReplyDelete2. Does Golding's relate himself and his personal experience in the war to Ralph?
3. What does the entire plot personally mean to Golding?
The boy's stay on the island comes to an end in chapter 12, when a naval officer comes to their rescue. Although Ralph is over joyed to be saved from his own murder, he knows he will never be the same. Ralph feels as if he is permanently damaged by the experiences he has had on the island. "Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of a true, wise friend called Piggy" (pg.202). It's at this time that Ralph has an epiphany; he has come to terms with the dark side of mankind and realizes he has completely lost his innocence. In many of the chapters Ralph has talked about his childhood, making it seem almost perfect, with the exception of his mother (who either died or left him). While trapped on the island, he has dreamt about returning but now when it comes time to leave, he finds it difficult to return to civilization. No boys his age will ever be able to relate to his experiences. I think that Golding has been relating him self to Ralph the entire book, coming home from World War II he must have felt the same abandonment as Ralph. They were victims of physiological and physical war fare. Both of their experiences changed everything they had previously known about their world, therefore changing the course of their lives.
1- If Ralph hadn't reached the beach what do you think would happen to all the boys and him?
ReplyDelete2- Did you expect them to be recused?
3- Did the boys learn anything out of this journey? Why or Why not?
"He forgot his wounds, his hunger and thirst, and became fear; hopeless fear on flying feet, rushing through the forest toward the open beach." (200)
The ending of this book was really shocking to me. I noticed the real Ralph came out just at the end. Although the idea of every man for himself really played a major role in this book,there was always the factor of having someone by your side. Whether it was Piggy and Ralph, Sam and Eric or Jack and his loyal followers, never was anyone fully away from the group for good. But in this moment Ralph is realizing; he could either die, or escape the group forever. When I choose this quote I immediately had a picture in my mind of what Ralph must have looked like. Sometimes when people are running (whether it's in a competition or just at the gym) so fast and powerfully the thought of being tired, hungry/thirsty and hurt escapes your mind because you are just running so fast that you aren't even thinking about those things you're just think about moving forward and reaching your destination as quickly as possible. This is what happened to Ralph. All of this thoughts of being hurt and hungry suddenly turned into fear. Fear is a feeling of anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger. At this moment, Ralph is being chased by all the boys behind him who want him dead. So as he's running frantically, all that is going through his mind is fear. Fear that he will not be fast enough, fear that he will not make it to the beach and especially fear that he will die. In this book, Ralph has had the position of being the leader. Although Jack took it away in the middle of the book, Ralph will always hold that leader role somehow. And so as a leader, the worst quality to show to your fellow people is fear. Ralph did have personal fears, but I feel he didn't show them to the others. He just kept making rules and tried to build some kind of society instead of just giving up and showing his fear. But, at the end of this chapter Ralph's real fear comes out. He is scared to death and believes truly that we will be killed. Ralph was the only one who desperately kept saying to himself that he wanted to be rescued and get off the island asap. And so he didn't want to be the one dying on the island and basically remaining there forever.
Lily Cook
ReplyDelete1.) Will the boys view civilization differently from now on?
2.) Will Ralph and Jack be enemies still when they are back to civilization?
3.) How will this affect the boys psychologically for the rest of their lives?
The quote that I find to be noteworthy is "Ralph wept for the end of innocence..." because this whole book is so extreme, that for what Ralph to be going through to be so relatable is a surprise to me. I think that the loss of innocence that Ralph viewed and wept for was the experience of his eyes opening to the savagery of humanity, but more generally, the loss of innocence is something that is very easily relatable, because growing up is something everyone goes through. This is why I think this book will most likely always have relevance, and what makes it a classic. On another note, I found it quite important that Ralph put such importance on maintaining the signal fire to help them be rescued, but what ended up saving them was a forest fire created to kill Ralph. I just found this ironic and interesting.
I agree with you and it is interesting that you say that because I thought the same exact thing. This book really took the idea of loss of innocence and made it extreme. Actually, now that I think about it... Golding did not make anything about this loss of innocence extreme. He just put man in their natural state of nature. No government, no social class, no rules, no civilizations. That's how it was before and this is exactly what Golding showed. I do wonder, however, if the boys will ever return to how they were before.
DeleteIn response to your question, Lupe, I don't think the boys will be able to return to the way they were before, but I also don't think that this experience was fully bad. I think that at the same time that they will be haunted by this experience, it also really taught them something. I think they were put in one of the hardest positions I can think of and the fact that they can now return back to civilization they can apply all those experiences they had an use them to their advantage. I know that sounds kind of gross because what happened to them is awful and why would I see it in a good way, but I really do think that this could all be seen as one big lesson about the world and they should keep that in mind.
Delete- Where did Golding get the idea of "Lord of the Flies"?
ReplyDelete- Will Ralph be able to live a normal life again with everything that has happened?
- Did Sam and Eric and the other older boys survive the fire?
This chapter ended the book very well, and I think that it ended the book on an interesting note. The line that really stood out to me was at the end of the chapter when Percival says, "'I'm, I'm--' But there was no more to come. Percival Wemys Madison sought in his head for an incantation that had faded clean away,"(201). This line made me a little sad when I read it. Percival seems to have lost meaning to his name and himself. I think that it is hard for the boys, not only Percival, to just go back to their old lives after everything that has happened to them. They have become these savages, it is hard just to stop and become their old selves. I think that this whole experience has left them confused, especially now after they have witnessed murders and violent acts.
I agree Lila I think that they have all changed extremely dramatically and it's sad to think that the island has changed them in so many negative ways. They will never be able to fully interact normally; I think that Golding did this on purpose, the way they come to the island and the way they leave is significant.
DeleteThis line stood out to me too. I also found it sad to see Percival unable to recall who he even was. I think it is interesting how here the boys are referred to by name, instead of the "savages". It was strange to see the boys snapping out of their savage state, it reminded me how young and naieve they all are.
DeleteThe boys have changed so much on the island that it will be nearly impossible to go back to the boring routines of civilization. On the island, they had to take surviving into their own hands, and clearly it was too much for any of them to handle. The adjustment back to society will most likely be too much for any of the kids since they still aren't even adjusted to surviving on the island. I also don't think that although they are still kids, they will never be able to gain back the innocence that they lost during their time on the island.
Delete1. Will the boys ever return to how they were before? (more civilized)
ReplyDelete2. How does the "Lord of the Flies" connect or relate to Golding and the fact that he was an ex-marine?
3. Will the boys get ever get punished for Simon's and Piggy's death?
"Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man's heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy" (202).
This quote is significant because it really ties together everything that has happened throughout this book. This island has caused these little boys to lose their innocence. Now all they have left is pure horrid memory and resentment. On one of my previous posts, I mentioned the philosopher Thomas Hobbes. Hobbes mentioned that in men's state of nature, they eventually turn on each other and all there will be left is war. This is exactly what happened here. Men were dropped suddenly in their natural state of nature, something they were not accustomed to. Unfortunately, these "men" were only boys, thus they were not as wise, they declined into savagery faster. So in all this time where it was man vs. man, the boys eventually loss their innocence. Ralph wept because it really was sad. They will never be able to live the same anymore, because all there was in the island was "the darkness of man's heart". Ralph lost his best friend. Nothing can change what happened. It comes to show you that anyone can loose their humanity, no one is more innocent than another, everyone is just as guilty. Since Golding was an ex-marine, I wonder if the officer that found the boys, is him.
1. How will the boys recover from their experiences on the island?
ReplyDelete2. At the end, when the boys stopped when they saw the officers, why did they snap our of their savage state?
3. Why didn't the officer react dramatically when he discovered what the boys turned into?
Perhaps not the main event of the chapter, but I found it interesting that even Ralph became savage towards the end of his time on the island. Though he did not join Jack's clan, he was forced into becoming like them in how he fought back. When attacking the boys, he was "screaming, snarling, bloody" (199). I think Golding's word choice in this line was to emphasize how much Ralph had changed. "Snarling" is a word usually used to describe the sounds hostile animals make, not humans. He used the word "bloody" to emphasize how barbaric Ralph had become. I think Golding was trying to say something about everyone, how even the strongest can be taken over by their animalistic side.
I agree with your analysis Ruby. After being around people like Jack and his clan it is easy to conform to how they live. Also once Piggy died, Ralph was on his own and he got to make his own decision without any influence from Piggy. So, he became this person that we hadn't seen at all during the book, which was a barbaric side.
DeleteI think you're right however it seemed as if some characters like piggy were un-corrupted even till there death. It seemed to me that when someone is left alone with savages they will eventually have to give in to the darker side of themselves.
DeleteHow much psychological rehabilitation will the boys need?
ReplyDeleteWhy so much Irony?
Whats life back home in Britain?
"Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man's heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy." Chapter 12, pg. 184. Might have been the saddest and most heart felt moment in the entire book. That Ralph went through seeing piggy as a strange noise to a knowledgeable true friend. It seemed extremely ironic though that he wouldn't be able to realize this until the last chapter. The ending to this must be extremely reflective of his military experience. Even I began to miss him a lot even his whiny attitude.
I agree with you. I think that the quote is very heartfelt and emotional. He realized how much Piggy actually meant to him and how much Piggy kept him sane and not savage like the other boys. In a way, Piggy might have been the reason that Ralph survived.
Delete1. Why does the officer turn away when Ralph cries?
ReplyDelete2. Why did Golding want the boys to be rescued in the end? Does this change his perception of human nature and morality?
3. What will become of the boys when they leave the island?
"Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of a true, wise friend called Piggy."
The rescue is, suprisingly, not a moment of joy for Ralph. His thought of Piggy in this moment shows that he now realizes Piggy was the purest of all the boys, and he feels the impact of his death, since he never really had time to mourn. He also realizes that, although he is saved from death on the island, he will never be the same. He has seen things that some as young as him should never see, and because of that he has learned the evil that lives within all human beings and has completely lost his innocence. I found it very ironic that it took being rescued for Ralph to realize all of these things. This makes me wonder what would have become of the boys if they were never rescued...
I agree with you that the boys sadly have lost their innocence being on this island. I think if the boys were never rescued then they might all have gone as individuals,and kill each other in fear of the other doing that to them. The violence might keep increasing,like we seen throughout the story, then there will be no boys left sadly to be rescued.
DeleteWill the boys ever be the same when they arrive at home?
ReplyDeleteWhat does it say of the boys that a naval officer is disgusted with their behavior?
Will the boys look at society with a different perspective from now on?
"The tears began to flow, and the sobs shook him."
While reading the story, I sometimes forgot the fact that these people on the Island are kids. But even though they are just children, the whole way through the book they were forced to act like adults. And, throughout all the violence and savagery its hard to believe that any of them will be able to go back to their normal lives at home. Many children ages 6-12 have not taken part in killing people or even animals for that matter. These events will be deeply traumatizing for them as they try to navigate themselves once again in a socially correct setting. I think part of the reason they cried at the end was because not only were they happy to go home, but they were finally realizing all the horrible things they had been doing, and were probably wondering how they could get back to living a normal life. On a different note, I found it horribly Ironic that it was the forest fire that got the boys rescued. After all Ralph had done to try to get them saved, it was the product of chaos that finally gave them chance to get back to civilization. In conclusion, I think Golding may be hinting that civilization and savagery are more closely connected than one might think.
Good work Isaiah, i agree with the thoughts your the children seeming more mature then they actually are. I saw it as Golding reflecting these complex, more serious traits of men within these children making them seem more adult. Also, I think he does a good job of bringing them back to act like more of their age when they are rescued, which i think is significant, in that now that they are back in their old society, they already have their own place as children rather than in theirs society playing the roles of leaders.
DeleteThat's a really cool point, Isaiah. I had thought that there would be no chance of them ever returning to any sort of civilization. But as they start crying when they come into contact with societal norms again, it became obvious to me that immediately they understood the severity of their actions on the island. It was as if when they encountered the naval officer, there was an instant snap back to the ways of thought that the boys had come from. Not to say, though, that the experience on the island will not be haunt them for the rest of their lives.
DeleteWhat is the lord of flies symbolize?
ReplyDeleteWhy did flies appear alot more towards the end?
Have the boy lost their innocence completely by now?
"I'm, I'm.But there was no more to come.Percival Wemys Madsion sought in his head for an incantation that had faded clean away."(201)This shows how the boys don't recognize themselves anymore,not even a little bit.It will be difficult for these groups of boys to return to civil society,and act "normally" when they return to it.It might also show a loss of innocence because of the many things done on the island,they do no want their civil self be blamed of what occurred there.
I agree with your analysis of this quote. I found it interesting that Golding chooses to have Percival, the boy who once knew his own address, forget a simple fact such as his name. I think that these lines really show how animal-like Jack’s group was turning.
DeleteGood point, Diana. After all the horrible events that have taken place on the island the question is how will they act in civilized life? They have become something other than themselves due to a loss of innocence from all the things that occurred. But will they ever be able to play like children and enjoy life again?
DeleteWhy does Ralph decide to claim himself as the leader at the end of this chapter?
ReplyDeleteWhy didn’t Jack speak up when Ralph stated he was the chief?
Why did Golding choose to have the island fire act as the main reason of rescue for all of the boys, when originally it was supposed to kill Ralph?
When the officer realizes that the boys are crying, “He turned away to give them time to pull themselves together; and waited, allowing his eyes to rest on the trim cruiser in the distance” (202). I found it ironic and surprising that the officer, who will return these boys to civilization, prefers to pay attention to his (savage) battleship. I found it interesting that the officer finds comfort at watching his ship rather than having to deal with the boy’s emotions. This quote clearly illustrates the violence that has occurred on the island is happening back at home as well, which makes me wonder whether or not the boys will be able to regain the rules of society once they leave the island. In addition, I wonder why Golding decides to end the book with these lines, was he trying to convince readers that savagery doesn’t always destroy civilization? Or was he trying to send the message that orders and rules are essential for survival?
1) Did Jack ever have a plan of how to survive long term, or was he just following his savage instincts?
ReplyDelete2) Will the kids ever be able to get back their innocence?
3) Will Jack take this violent mindset back with him to civilization?
A lot of things went through Ralph's mind as he was fleeing Jack and his wild tribe. Among these thoughts, one of them stood out to me above the others. While eyeing a potential hiding spot, Ralph thought, "Couldn't a fire outrun a galloping horse?" (197). To me, this one sentence sums up the entire story for the most part. First, there's the literal approach, in which the fire refers to either the fire or the group of tribesmen, and the horse could be talking about Ralph, who is running for his life. Then, there is the metaphorical approach: the fire represents insanity, savagery, and the temptation to lose track of one's morals and become violent merely for the sake of survival. The horse on the other hand, represents all progress man has ever made. So many early inventions revolved around the physical labor of the horse, early transportation would have been useless without horses. The swiftness of a "galloping horse" is an image accompanied by an inspiring feeling. Jack's thought of the fire and the horse means that when let loose, the inner savageness of man is too much for one to resist. Basically, the fire represents all of the evil aspects of human nature, and the horse is everything productive that humanity has ever accomplished. When he thinks this, Jack is realizing why all of the other children became so corrupted and savage: because the will to survive is stronger than any morals man has ever had.
I did a lot of thinking in regards to how influential adults can be on children in this chapter. What the officer says when he sees Ralph for the first time really made me think. On page 224, "'Who's boss here?' 'I am,' said Ralph loudly." The key word here is loudly, the fact that Ralph all of a sudden seemed confident now that he had an adult next to him. I think it's funny that although he feels bigger than the boys being able to say that he's the boss, he also, in my mind, looked very small next to the officer. It became obvious to me at this point that an adult is all the children really needed to stay in control, and that maybe age and experience in the world is the only thing that makes leadership legitimate. Not one boy on the island knew more than the next... they seemed to me all equal at this point in time and were always equal. After reading the book I am remembering so many moments... for example a scene that explained two littluns, who, when left alone, had established a leader among them. This makes me think that everyone on the island is equal. If a littlun can be a leader, then anyone can be. So why is it that literally every boy on island didn't feel the need to challenge an adult? I think it is because the adult in many cases, especially this one, holds all of the answers and also all of the hope. Yes, the boys on the island have the ability to step up and lead a group but they don't have a ship to take them home or anything else that an adult might have. It is at this point in the book that the boys are willing to forget everything because the truth comes through-- all the boys ever really wanted was to go home. I think it's ironic that throughout the book the boys were trying to be adults, when really they should have just been focussing on finding one. We'd like to all be grown up sometimes but we also all need to admit when we are smaller than others and be at peace with being less than. It seems that by the end of this book the boys are at peace with this and the person that brought them to this standpoint was someone they always thought they could be.... grown up.
ReplyDeleteThis is very very interesting. I totally agree and can see it clearly in our society today. In our world, implicitly, respect is based on age and credentials. We would never let a 7 year old boss us around or follow them thinking that they truly held the answers to life. We see those older then use as wiser no matter how old we grow. As the boys pretended to be the all knowing they showed how truly not strong them were, killing off many members and driving boys to insanity. This was even foreshadowed in the first chapters as the boy with the birthmark went missing. This island seemed to show how no matter how old the boys were, they were still boys, who could not find morality because there was not authoritative figure.
DeleteSorry I forgot about my questions:
ReplyDelete1) Will Jack and Ralph get along now that there isn't anything to fight over?
2) Will the kids be able to forget and move on or will this always haunt them?
3) Is it possible that while this experience was disturbing it could have actually been beneficial to the boys? They have learned so much about the world and have a lot of experience, now they know the truth about many things and might find it easier to handle issues in their life to come.
1)- who is this man that showed up on the Island?
ReplyDelete- Has somebody been watching them this whole time?
- Does this man who showed up on the Island have any conection with Ralph's father?
2) " The officer nodded helpfully. "I know. Jolly good show. Like the coral Island."(pg-202) Rlaph was telling this man about what was happening and he said that he knew. How would he know, and why is he acting so weird about it? There was nothing funny about what was happenining and it wasn't a "show." I wonder if this man knows Ralph's father, and if this man is in the marine core. It is odd how this officer shows up casually and nonchalant acting as if nothing is going on. There are to many details that are missing because in real life if somebody found children stranded on an Island I think that they would make a bigger deal out of it and not act as if it is some kind of entertainment.
-Marcello Brattesani
The guy who shows up is a naval officer. And rather than thinking he had a connection with Ralph's father I thought he did with the parachute guy. I don't believe anyone was watching them this whole time like a beast or anything. But I think most of them have really gotten their lives shook. Another key point is that Ralph didn't even ask the naval officer if he knew he dad and Ralph never said 'I knew my dad was going to save us'.
DeleteWill the boys be the way they were on this island forever?
ReplyDeleteDo the boys ever receive reprimands for their actions?
Why so much irony? Could Golding have ended in a different way?
What is with Ralph forgetting things? What does this mean?
This whole story as we've been viewing the two leaders, Ralph and Jack, seperate ideas we've always viewed Ralph as a more moral and just person and leader. I do not contest this but in this chapter you see Ralph's need or lust for lavash items like a feast blocks out his moral traits that he learned from civilized life. On page 184 Ralph is "bitter when he remembered the feast. Feast today and then tomorrow.." Just moments after his two allies, Piggy and Simon are murdered he contemplates giving into the savages for a lavish meal of pig. He only decided this is a bad idea when he realizes what they could do to HIM and only him the next day. Savagery is every man for himself, and this is exactly what Ralph displays here.
I agree Eve, I was asking myslef that, because Ralph was looking for his best interest only, would he be considered a savage? I also found it strange that without each leader doing what they had done, they would still be stuck on this island. For example, if Jack hadn't made the fire to get Ralph out the naval officer wouldn't had decided to go the island, and if Ralph had never ran to the beach the officer wouldn't have been able to find them. The pig has a great significance because as you said before Simon and Piggy are killed they are eating the pig, but yet both these characters have some relation to a pig, for example the pig head begins to take control and talk to Simon, while Piggy had pig-like features. Did this foreshadow their gruesome deaths, just as the boys slaughtered the pigs?
Delete1. What made the author name the pig's head, Lord of the Flies? And what did it symbolize?
ReplyDelete2. Will the boys ever return back to their civilized state of being?
3. When they back home, will they ever tell the whole story of life on the island?
This chapter was really intense, and as I foreshadowed the sudden shift in Ralph's personality to continue to be civilized led to a judgement of the boys at the end of this book. I found it important that a naval officer found the boys, because naval officers train soldiers to be civilized, but savages during war, the fact that he judged him so harshly symbolizes that what they had become is unnatural for this society. Furthermore, I found it interesting that once there was a adult figure was there for guidance, whatever they had become in the time at the island was as if it was of no importance to them. "The tears began to flow and sobs shook him. He gave himself up to them for the first time on the island...the other little boys began to shake and sob too."(202) What's significant is that at the end of the story Golding refers to the boys as "little", which shows us how much violence they witnessed at such a young, and how much destruction they had caused. It makes us question if they were older and were trapped on tjis island would they become savages quicker and lose thier past life of civilization or would they find ways to cooperate with each other?
Those are some really good questions Samantha. I think that if they were older they would have definitely found a way to work better with each other, because they would have been more focused on getting rescued compared to the littluns. So they would've been able to keep the fire going and build shelter, etc. Also I think that once they return to civilization, they will want to forget about what happened on the island since it was such a traumatic experience and they won't want to talk about it.
Delete-Why does Golding name the chapter 'Cry of the Hunters'?
ReplyDelete-How will the boys truly recover from this experience?
-Was the naval officer really going to the island to see where the dead parachute guy was? Ralph finds a place to sleep for the night. The next morning, his hiding place, a dense thicket, is betrayed by Samneric. A quote that stood out to me was, "Silver laughter scattered among the trees" (192). The tribe is unsuccessful at reaching him in the thicket, so they flush him out by rolling boulders into it and setting it on fire. Once Ralph is on the run, the tribe follows him, communicating with each other with an ululating cry. Ralph finds another impenetrable thicket to hide in but is discovered there as well. Now the fire has spread across the island so that he has to outrun the savages and the fire. He makes it to the beach and falls at the feet of a newly arrived British naval officer, whose ship had been attracted by the smoke from the huge fire. The officer confirms that his ship will take them off the island. Ralph breaks into sobs, weeping for all he has lost.
Will the boys be able to re-adjust to civilization?
ReplyDeleteWhy is Ralph just now realizing that Piggy was a really good friend to him?
Why didn't the naval officer try to comfort Ralph when he began to cry?
Honestly this last chapter made me sad. It's obvious that the boys have been traumatized, making it impossible for them to return to the way they were before their airplane crashed on the island. "Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of a true, wise friend called Piggy" (202). Ralph's and the others' innocence has been stolen from them, they had to experience things that 6-12 year boys shouldn't have to. They witnessed first hand how cruel the true nature of man is. And only now that they're being rescued does Ralph realize that Piggy was his truest friend. It's just a shame that Ralph will never be able to tell Piggy thanks for being such a good friend.
YESSSS werkk mykala love it yes i totally agree with you what is a 6 yr old doing killing animals to eat them, will this make them stronger men or idk better men? They boys got lost in the civilizations and it partially isnt really their fault!
Delete1. What would've happened if the boys wouldn't have started the fire?
ReplyDelete2. Were the boys sobbing at the realization that they had lost civilized manners?
3. How does the fact that they are English tie with the fact that they lost civilized morals and that they killed is their any correlation?
The line that struck me a lot was when the officer responded to seeing the boys, when he responds like disgusted or appalled by the boys actions. I found this really ironic seeing as though he himself is part of an adult world in which violence and war go hand in hand with civilization and social order. this statement he gives to the boys is full of hypocrisy because he does the same thing as well. Also instead of the boys being happy and joyful that they are being rescued instead aren't they are weeping and thinking about how their life can never be the same again.
I also thought of this when I read that line. As a member of the navy it is his duty to fight and protect his country, implying that he most likely kills people to help survive. Even though the kids may have been more gruesome, they were basically doing the same thing. Maybe it is a symbol or comparison that the person who rescued them was someone involved in the war, or maybe it was a sign of things to come, sort of like a look into the future.
DeleteWhen I read the officer's reaction, I was also surprised at his response. At the same time, it makes sense that he would be embarrassed because as a naval officer he is meant to be strong both mentally and physically and at times hide emotions. You also have to remember though that he doesn't even know the full story and he may never know. The boys' initial reaction to getting rescued is also surprising but understandable. Ralph, especially has gone through so much up until now and has been betrayed by so many and he has seen two close peers murdered. When you lose your innocence like Ralph did throughout the book it's hard not to think about the past and that's probably why he felt sad.
DeleteWhat is the significance of Ralph being rescued at the time seemingly before his end?
ReplyDeleteCould this group savage boys be considered some form of society?
Will the guilt or repercussions of several murders come to the boys once they've returned home?
I thought this chapter was very conclusive as the boys returned to their past society. It seemed that Golding was trying to make this very dramatic,showing the huge difference in the children's change in emotion from the beginning of the chapter up through to the end. The quote I chose was "And there again, shrill and inevitable, was the ululation sweeping across the island." leading up to this quote, Ralph seemed to have lost everything, most of the kids ties to their past society were gone. We saw this as Sam and Eric left to join Jacks tribe and the the sows head remained as a trophy. mainly, we saw the savagery become very prominent within Jack's tribe. Golding really caught my attention when the man comes to rescue them and they begin to cry. this got me thinking how quick the values and rationalities of society can be brought back and lost so quickly. this leads me to think Golding wants to show us how malleable the terms of constituting a rational society are.
I agree that Golding swings emotions in chapter 12, and I also think that it is important that the boys have such an emotional response to being rescued. They could have very easily remained savage on the island and resisted being rescued and brought back to everyday society. I think the fact that they accepted "going back to society" so quickly was most important within Jack's character because it serves as an example of Golding's views on power and its effect on people. It seems to me that Jack is used to power at the very beginning of the story, and as soon as the opportunity for more power presents itself, he desires to be chief, and continues so until he actually becomes chief. But then at the end, he is completely willing to give up his power and return to everyday society, which is not something I expected from him. I expected him to be insane and fight being rescued and attempt to stay on the island because he has power and is happy there. Golding is saying that when an opportunity for power presents itself, it is human nature to want it and grab it, but perhaps without the original opportunity to acquire power, humans would not desire power so strongly.
Delete1. Why did Golding choose to end the book like that?
ReplyDelete2. Why do the boys not celebrate at the arrival of the officer?
3. What makes the Lord of the Flies so important?
"He saw a shelter burst into flames and the fire flapped at his right shoulder." This was a line that particularly stood out to me because it referenced to the fire that Jack caused to try and find and kill Ralph. It's ironic how the whole time that Ralph is in power, his first priority is to always start a signal fire, because that is how he thinks that they will get rescued. He tries to get them rescued in an organized and civilized way; starting the signal fire helps portray the cohesiveness as a society they have and the intellectual ability, almost a symbol of civilization. But in the end, when all chaos has broken loose and civilization has come to end, it is the fire that has the most malicious intentions and savagery that ends up getting the boys saved. It makes you wonder what Golding is trying to say about the world and about society; why is it that something positive comes as a reward to the kids from an action that deserves punishment, and they recieved no reward after all that time of peace?
How will the boys be received back home? Will they be treated with respect for surviving isolated and alone on a remote island, or will they be scorned for their savage appearance and behavior?
ReplyDeleteWill the boys suffer from a "culture shock" of sorts when they resume living back in England?
Are any of the boys the Lord of the Flies? And if it exists in everyone, are any of the boys "more" the Lord of the Flies than anyone else?
"I'm, I'm.' But there was no more to come. Percival Wemys Madsion sought in his head for an incantation that had faded clean away" (201). This quotation brings up points and arguments that Golding has emphasized throughout the entire story. Golding has frequently implied that the boys are changing as result of living on the island, and it is interesting that one of the characters I thought was least likely to change, Percival, has lost the natural repetition of his name and address. By stating this, Golding is also asking whether a loss of almost-instinctive behaviors is good or bad. I think he supports both answers throughout the book, which makes me feel like Golding believes it to be more of a case by case basis, rather then there being a definitive answer for all situations. In some cases, such as Ralph's near-instinct to attempt to build and maintain a fire, Golding supports the more negative answer, that it is good that Ralph held on to and acted upon this inner feeling. However, in terms of Jack and his near-instinct to hunt and kill (which resulted in the deaths of Piggy and Simon), Golding also supports the idea that straying from natural compulsions can be a good thing. This quote states that the boys' time on the island has affected them, both in a good way and bad, and the fact that it comes from a character such as Percival makes it seem like Golding is stressing his opinions even more.
1)a)Will anyone else besides the boys on the island find out about the cruel acts that Jack committed?
ReplyDeleteb)Why was the naval officer embarrassed when the boys showed their emotion?
c)What is the significance of Percival not being able state his name and address like he did in the beginning of the book?
2)"I should have thought", said the officer.... I should have thought that a pack of British boys... would have been able to put up a better show than that"(202) This quote stood out to me because it showed how easily humans can turn into savages. Jack in the beginning claims how the English are the best at everything and now the naval officer tries to reinforce that belief. He seems disappointed in the boys- mostly Ralph- because he wasn't able to tell him how many there were on the island. This statement contained irony as it showed how the British thought highly of themselves yet the English schoolboys were ordered to kill each other. It shows how easy it is to decline into savagery no matter how civilized someone is. Also, the word choice of the naval officer, referring to the events that took place as a show even though he didn't actually know what happened was very surprising to me. Shows are meant to be entertaining but yet these boys have turned into savages. The boys obviously had no fun because they all wept, which is why the chapter is called the "Cry of the Hunters".
Was it significant that the boys were rescued as they were going to kill Ralph?
ReplyDeleteWhy did the officer feel uncomfortable?
Is is significant that the officer said that they saw their smoke? Why this one, and not all the others?
"Ralph looked at him dumbly. For a moment he had a fleeting picture of the strange glamour that had once invested the beaches. But the island was scorched up like dead wood-" (202). This quote was enough to remind me of all the times that the boys had on the island. Just remembering how they all first met, before all of the chaos happened. The image in his mind of the beautiful island and the new image of the dead island seems symbolic of the progression of the boys. They started off innocent and worked their way into becoming savage murderers. By this time in the book, they were all dead inside.
I was also interested that passing boats did not investigate their regular fires and only the huge forest fire. I think that this is because the forest fire looked dangerous and harmful, whereas the others looked harmless. To a passing ship the regular fires could easily be built by people living on the island. Sailors might have assumed that people permanently lived on the island and not wanted to interfere. The forest fire did not appear intentional to an outsider so it drew more attention than the others.
DeleteRight? I agree that they slowly progressed to becoming savage animals. Looking back on how they started on the island, with civilized meetings, and using the conch, i would never think someone would be killed by a fellow member of the society. Ithink the island as a whole represents their journey, when they landed it was full of lush trees and sand but now they have burned to the ground and destroyed the territory like their own relationships.
Delete1. Why, at this climactic moment, did Golding choose to suddenly have the boys rescued?
ReplyDelete2. How will they integrate back into society?
3. Will Jack remain evil in the outside world?
"'Fun and Games' said the officer" (200). It was shocking to me to think that after the tremendous ordeal of savagery and evil that went on on the island, it would be mistaken for simply harmless fun and games. I think this shows that no one would have expected such atrocities to occur by the hands of not just children, but human beings. I think Golding's message in this book was that some people are evil, like Jack, and some are not, like Ralph. In a situation stripped of societal rules, the inner, true selves of people make themselves known. Golding was not trying to say that in a scenario like this, we will all become evil because we are all naturally evil. I think he was trying to say that in a scenario like this, our natural selves will come out, and that natural self just may happen to be evil.
How will the boys react and behave back in society?
ReplyDeleteHow long have they been on the island? How long did it take to abandon the rules of society?
Why weren't the boys more responsive or excited by the arrival of the officer who saves them.
The quote I chose was, " Ralph wept for the end of innocence, the darkness of man’s heart, and the fall through the air of the true, wise friend called Piggy." I loved that Ralph finally lets go in this passage. He has been trying for so long on this island to stay strong and be a powerful leader, but he was just as scared when they arrived on the island and he has been holding his fears, sadness, and guilt inside. I also think that it is important that Ralph establishes how good Piggy was and how important he was for the group. In the beginning, Ralph did not respect Piggy but, Piggy grew to be a loyal, strong and wise friend to Ralph. Ralph also weeps for 'the loss of innocence' I think this means that Ralph understands he and the other boys will never be who they were before arriving on the island. They have be changed for good, the savagery instilled in them. This also refers to "the darkness of man's heart'. While on the island Ralph realized that has is selfish by human nature. Our number one goal is survival and we will do anything to achieve it. Furthermore, human's are power hungry, we like to be in charge of our surroundings. i think that this quote perfectly sums up the boy's time on the island and how it has changed their lives forever.
1) Why does Ralph think he's safe, even though the savages are still on the island and he is struggling to survive?
ReplyDelete2)Why did samneric become one of the savages instead of sticking with Ralph?
3) What is the significance of the forest fire jack started to get rid of Ralph actually made him get rescued?
"'Are there any adults-any grownups with you?'" (200)
In my opinion, this quote pretty much sums up a good 60 percent of the booke or more. What surprised me is that the FIRST thing the naval officer asked was if there were any grownups. The entire story there was this struggle between kids versus adults; independent versus dependent. Ralph's response is also very significant, because the book explains he shook his head "dumbly". This means that Ralph trying to say that if adults were on the island they wouldnt have ended up in this situation. The officer then says "fun and games" (200). This dialogue symbolizes what all of the children went through on the island, and how they needed to be strong and get along for the sake of being rescued. However, all of them lost control and turned on eachother, except Ralph stayed true to himself and in the end got rescued. The only child on the island that took a role as an adult was Piggy, and sadly i think Ralph only noticed once he was gone how much he was needed. What I am still confused about, is how the fire which was intended to kill Ralph, actually lead to him being saved. What was Golding trying to say by this?