Well hello there, old friend! The blog is back. For this post, please:
1) Read and thoroughly annotate Chapter 2, and then choose a passage that stands out to you/intrigues you/confuses you. Type up the passage, in its entirety, and cite it.
2) Then, either:
- Ask a question and work through your confusion in a thorough response. Call on your classmates to also engage with this passage and unpack it together. OR--
- Look at specific language/literary devices/tools and write a response in which you examine the EFFECT of these devices. What do these observations that you've made DO for the novel?
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Billy does not walk to focus on the bad. A death, which he definitely experienced a lot in the war, is a sad time where grieving is okay and most of the time needed. Billy, takes a different approach to thinking about about death. He takes a more optimistic look on it by saying "he is still very much alive in the past". Remembering when the person was alive should be the way to grieve/deal with a death according to Billy. This reminds me of Vonnegut's commentary in the first chapter of the book. He contradicts this idea by saying "people aren't supposed to look back. I'm certainly not going to do it anymore" (22). Vonnegut is saying the complete opposite by writing Billy as someone who wants to remember the past rather than living in the moment. Interestingly, Vonnegut was trying to remember the war to write this book, but maybe that's why he doesn't want to anymore today because he wants to start to live in the moment and focus on himself now. But, then again Billy saying that all moments do exist and will always exist can then agree will Vonnegut's point-don't focus on the past but all moments do happen and are true and nothing them is important. I wonder if this opinion Billy has will change as we learn about his journeys and stories of the war.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI really like this quote and the insight you gave to it. I agree with what you are saying about the more optimist take Billy has on death but i also think its more of a defense mechanism he has conditioned himself to believe in order to make sense of the war and the violence. This is why the story he come up with seems like insanity because in all reality the violnce from the war it is the real insanity. I wonder also how this mindset will change as his story progresses.
DeleteThe quote did not post for some reason and I cant figure out how to delete ^ and post again so here is the quote I based my response off of. My bad!!
ReplyDelete"The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present, and future, always have existed, always will exist" (26).
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DeleteQUESTION- How does Billy's perspective on death contradict Vonnegut's?
DeleteQuote: "Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is so it goes"(27).
ReplyDeleteWhat does this phrase show about Vonnegut's feelings about death?
I think that Vonnegut included this phrase throughout the the novel to make the reader question the meaning of death, and the inevitability of death as well. By constantly repeating “so it goes” after death in the novel, it shows how Vonnegut believes that death is unavoidable because it just happens. Although Vonnegut thinks death is terrible, “So it goes” represents the powerful truth of death. Furthermore, I think that he used this phrase to keep track of all the deaths in the novel, which makes the reality of death very real in the war. Vonnegut might also have included this because he wants to say that death is tragic but should be accepted.
This is such a great point! I agree with you and I think that since they were in the war and had to live though watching thousands of people dying, they are somehow use to it by now. So in result of that, they kind of play it off as if nothing really happened and it's a Normal thing by continuously repeating the phrase "So it goes" after someone dies
DeleteI agree with this point, and I would like to add the nonchalant expression in his voice. When he talks about something that seems emotional and dark he seems nonchalant and blows right past him. This is ironic because something that would usually make someone emotional and somewhat sad blows right past him as if nothing had happened. This just shows that the affects of war on him and shows that being surrounded by death he kind of absorbs all of the sadness into denial.
DeleteYou make such a great point! This was exactly what I was thinking as I read this passage from the novel. Adding on, I also think that "so it goes" is used to keep track of all the deaths in the novel. This passage reminds me of when Vonnegut explained that on his out line, wherever a color ends represents the death of a character. At this point, Vonnegut is so used to death and seeing people die, that it doesn't really phase him anymore. This is a characteristic that, I think, he passes to Billy. This is because both of them aren't phased by death, and when they talk about it, its done very casually.
DeleteThis connects so well to my post!! Billy's outlook is focused on the past in terms of death. This is really interesting to me because as a war solider I would think he wants to move forward. His way of accepting it is recognizing death is to say 'so it goes' and maybe wants to realize all of the moments and that the person was alive in the past is his way to process it all. I wonder how this outlook/opinion will be better explained when his stories from the war are told. Overall, as we know Vonnegut says in chapter 1 does not however want to look back in the past. Do you guys agree with my blog post about how Vonnegut can also contradict his options on death that he reflects in Billy?
ReplyDeleteAlso why the phrase "so it goes"? I feel like there could be a less sort of "sassy" tone used in a phrase talking about death.
I think Vonnegut’s use of the phrase, “so it goes” supplements to his satirical tone, and like Ms. Kaufman said in class, the purpose of repeating,“so it goes” is to make readers angry at the narrator for making the deaths and tragedies in the book seem meaningless. I agree with Evan that Vonnegut has made it clear that he thinks death is terrible, but also through his novel he mocks the compassionless reactions towards these deaths. Also just to respond to Kate’s response, I think that Billy constantly looking at the past is Vonnegut's way of saying that it’s easier to mourn and reflect over past events, rather than being in present time and having to think about how to move forward from them.
Delete"Billy says that he first came unstuck in time in 1944, long before his trip to Tralfamadore. The Tralfamadorians didn't have anything to do with his coming unstuck. They were simply able to give him insights into what was really going on. He first came unstuck while world war two was in progress” pg 30
ReplyDeleteWhat allows Billy to become unstuck in time and what does it say for how he views life?
For Billy the Tralfamadorians play a role in saving him from himself, the story he constructs of Tralfamadorian keep him ironically sane especially in such a violent world. Which is why he's learned to view death as nothing extravagant and to be considered just another moment for someone who has already lived a lifetime full of moments. Not to say he doesn't value life but he sees how inexplicably fragile life can be and how suffering is a prominent part of living. This train of thought and whatever caused him to become unstuck from time is what forces Billy to construct the Tralfamadorians. Billy's ability to become unstuck in time and time-travel appears to be the result of his overall suffering. The moment we see Billy begin to time travel is during the war when he is suffering, tired, and weak. As he lays against tree he flashes forward “through the full arc of life” beyond death which he visualizes as a violent light and a hum, he then enters pre-birth seen as red with bubbling sounds.Then to the moment when he almost drowned trying to learn to swim, he simplifies life to these moments while he lays in such debility. Billy is aware of his own vulnerability and suffering that comes from the war and violence going on around him.
That is a really good argument and I agree that the "Tralfamadorians" play a critical role in his sanity. Billy's mental change was definitely a result of the terrible things he experienced during the war, which explains why he is now so isolated. This isolation could be a result of being unstuck in time in short periods, which makes him very disconnected from everyone. This isolation might also be a result of Vonnegut reflecting how he was mentally traumatic and stressed from the war.
DeleteFurthermore, this time travel suggests a lack of control over his own emotions due to the war, which shows how a persons past never leaves them.
I love this argument! You explained the meaning of the "Tralfamadorians" very effectively and critically! In addition to your argument, I think the "Tralfamadorians" reveal the extent to which war burdens Billy and his fellow comrades. Billy is so traumatized by the events that plainly unfold before him that he invents this atypical species through which he can relate. He finds solace in these beings as opposed to the soldiers who endure with him, which reveals the alienation Billy feels amidst this war setting. Perhaps these extraterrestrial creatures also reveal how other-worldly war is; it is so difficult to digest and comprehend that it is an entity almost foreign to human thought in its entirety, similar to these "Tralfamadorian" creatures of which are projections of Billy's perplexed mind. He tries to make sense of his surroundings through inventing a species that is equally unfamiliar as war, and thus it is only appropriate to make this species reside in a land beyond the world itself.
DeleteAnna, first of all I want to say that I love your analysis of the significance of the “T”, you put it into words that were just not coming to me.
DeleteAnyways, I agree with you when you say that these creatures are what’s keeping Billy sane as he denies being mentally damaged by the plane crash, but why do you think he resorts to fictional creature to explain how he feels towards death? I believe that not only is it a coping method, but it is Vonnegut’s way of illustrating how complicated writing this anti war story was. He is showing the reader that war, and all the death that comes with it, is all “nonsense”. How better to portray this message through the mind of a delusional person.
This is an amazing argument and I also think that the "Tralfamadorians" play an important role in Billy's sanity. I think that they are a project of his imagination that his brain created as a sort of PTSD. When someone sees so many fellow soldiers die, and experiences near-death themselves, it is a natural reaction to create something like the "Talfamadorians". They make all the death Billy witnessed seem not so bad. As he does this he also separates himself from death and the thought of truly losing someone. Billy cannot get the war out of his head so he created a rationalization using the alien life.
Deletethe argument that tralfmadorians keeps billy sane is so interesting i also believe that billy made up this place to give him something to believe and make people want to hear his story. i also believe that hes experiences in Germany can influence how he talks about Tralfamadorian as a society. this made up place serves as a coping mechanism for billy
DeleteI strongly agree with your argument, Anna. It makes me think about how it's as if Billy is dead himself, like brain dead. He's been through so many traumatic scenes and situations that have just scarred him to the point where it seems to be something normal that happens in his everyday life. Thus, bringing in the constant phrase "so it goes". Something else that really caught my attention was how Billy always seems to be the one surviving everything and he has nothing to do but to watch the people around him not survive. He's gone through so much that he just isn't the same anymore. It's like this feeling of being lonely and gloomy.
Delete“She said she was going to join a church as soon as she decided which one was right. She never did decide. She developed a terrific hankering for a crucifix, though. And she bought one from a Santa Fe gift shop during a trip the little family made out west during the Great Depression. Like so many Americans, she was trying to construct a life that made sense from things she found in gift shops.” (38-39)
ReplyDeleteWhat message is Vonnegut trying to get out to his readers about American culture?
Billy’s family isn't quite religious, yet it is clear that his mother wishes for them to be. Vonnegut’s suggesting that the standard that passes for a typical American family is that you have to be religious and American’s are constantly trying to pursue that idea. An example of this would be Billy, although he is not catholic, growing up with a crucifix on his wall. Although Billy’s mom was an organist at the church, she never really joined the church and also took Billy with her, even though he never considered himself a Catholic. Billy’s mom would like to pursue this perfect image of an American family through the little knickknacks in a gift shop. Vonnegut here is making a point of how Americans are so fixed on living that idea of a perfect American family. Additionally, Vonnegut also makes a good point of how the American people spend their money on material goods in hopes of filling a void in their lives. Specifically, gift shops are an example of material goods that people buy even though they have no use.
This is a great analysis! Adding on, I believe that this can also connect to Vonnegut's commentary on the way war is portrayed in America. The notion that an American family is supposed to be religious is the same as the notion that a war hero must glorify stories from a way. Additionally, there are similarities between Billy's mother's frantic search for a religion once she had the crucifix, and Vonnegut's frantic search for a way to tell his story once he had the memories.
DeleteA passage I found interesting was one that I overlooked at first but after recalling the background information we learned about Vonnegut and the book, I found a deeper meaning to it.
ReplyDelete"Every employee is required to own a pair of safety glasses, and to wear them in areas where manufacturing is going on. GF&F has sixty-eight thousand employees in Ilium. That calls for a lot of lenses and a lot of frames. Frames are where the money is" (24).
I find this passage interesting because it is so easy to just think of the quote as it says and nothing more as I did, but when I looked back, I saw the "frames" (24) as the general perception/perspective on war. As Vonnegut says there are a lot of employees, I took that is there are a lot of people in the world to convince that war is ok and we should want war. This, although seemingly difficult idea is made easy with the media for example, and movies. Glorifying wars and war heroes. It is easy to go along with this flow of perspective, to conform with the media and film industry, where the money is and general success. In turn, Vonnegut is saying it is difficult to go against this flow of perspective, and you might not be successful going against the norms, similar to his reference in chapter 1 with the ice berg and how it is more impossible to end war than stop and iceberg. This shuttle paragraph I think emphasizes the struggle this was for Vonnegut, and how he sees the world and it's view war compared to his.
I thought about this idea too, using the glasses/lenses as a way to look at war and its conflicts. The sixty-eight thousand people who are all working the same job represents everybody who has enlisted in the war, and have been convinced to do so by propaganda thinking its the right thing to do. I think you did a really good job of explaining and analyzing this quote and the "frames" perspective.
Delete"Weary told Billy about neat tortures he'd read about tor seen ini the movies or heard on the radio-about tother neat tortures he himself had invented. One of his inventions was sticking a dentist's drill into a guy's ear. He asked Billy what he thought the worst form of execution was. Billy had no opinion... the correct answer turned out to be this: 'You stake a guy out on an anthill in the desert-see? He's facing upward, and you put honey all over his balls and pecker, and you cut off his eyelids so he has to stare at the sun till he dies.' So it goes." (36)
ReplyDeleteWhat does Weary's tone about death reflect about the anti-war narrative of Vonnegut, and how does Weary's tone mirror Vonnegut in regard to death?
There is a causal tone about death in Vonnegut and Weary's narrative. Weary decided that it was fun to invent or recount ways to die from torture, and the paragraph ends with Vonnegut's "So it goes," showing the sort of nonchalant tone when regarding death. The gruesome deaths are also described as 'neat' which even furthers the lack of regard for death. However, knowing Vonnegut's opinion about death, this description of death is satirical. Because Weary is "as new to war as Billy" (34), he is still fighting the war like a child, where everything is new, and even curse words are considered exciting enough. Weary takes these torture techniques from the TV or radio, almost making it comical and casual conversation between friends. Vonnegut may be trying to show how children that have the power of killing other do not have a real regard for life. Furthermore, Vonnegut's choice to describe the worst torture death as an opinion, but with a right answer, makes me think that there are no right answers to opinions, and in this context, there is no right way to torture and kill a person.
"Billy is spastic in time, has no control over where he's going next, and the trips aren't necessarily fun. He is in a constant state of stage fright, he says, because he never knows what part of life he is going to have to act in next" (23).
ReplyDeleteIs it better to live a life full of fear or a life where you don't care about anything?
I personally believe it is better to live in a life full of fear. Fear is here for a reason, and it keeps you from making bad decisions and keep you safe. Since the war Billy has been living in a state of fear, which is a tough thing to do, but in some way fear can be a good thing. If he did not care about anything and had no fear he wouldn't care about his life so much. Lliving in fear shows us that he cares about his own life.
Great interpretation and question. To respond to your question, I think living life without particularly caring about what others think of you or just overthinking things is more productive. That can often weigh heavily on their mind and prevent one from living their life fully as they should.
DeleteI think your passage can also be interpereted in tandem with my own. I read this passage as an inability to live a normal life at all, fear or no fear. He is unable to ground himself, and cant control his mind. I like the interperetation of the fear, and agree that he needs to live with the fear instead of giving up on life, but I think Billy may be too far gone.
DeleteZachary Schiller
ReplyDelete"They crawled into a forest like the big, unlucky mammals they were." ( pg. 29)
This quote is an example of a similie comparing the people to mammals crawling into the forest. Comparing people to mammals makes you think of comparing people to animals. In this sense the animals are powerless and are suppressed by a higher power. When I think of a mammal crawling back into the forest I think of a dog walking back into its cage with its tail between his legs. Suppressed and forced and scared so it goes back to where it came.
That's really interesting! Comparing the soldiers to animals is dehumanizing, forcing them into a label which, as you said, makes them powerless. For me, I took note on the next line, which said, "Then they stood up and began to walk quickly" (39-we have different books). When I saw that, I thought of evolution, of developing from crawling into walking, which is more human. The forest is a hiding place for them, where it's dark and they have routines of what to do. The forest may give this idea of protection and safety, from both the enemy, but also from the commands of war.
Delete“He told Billy to encourage people to call Billy--because it would stick to their memories. It would also make him seem slightly magical, since there weren't any other grown Billy's around. It compelled people to think of him as a friend right away.” (46)
ReplyDeleteThis quote examines the nature of Billy's future, and ties back into the way he was treated during the war which was the complete opposite of this. Wartime Billy was a completely unprepared character, who was dwarfed by his three other companions who made him look like a fool. These lines give the reader insight on how he would have really wanted to be treated; respected rather than helpless. The contradictions between his future life and his past are much more than filler, rather they are Vonnegut’s subtle ways of showing Billy's true wartime emotions. He makes himself look like a helpless and worthless character, but there is something “magical” about him which has been heavily overlooked by many characters within the story.
"'Why is it you never mentioned any of this before the airplane crash?'
ReplyDelete'I didn't think the time was ripe'"(30).
Question: Why didn't he?
At first I completely looked over this quote because I didn't think that it was important. However, as I looked back at my notes I realized something I didn't before. As Barbara asks her father why he hasn't brought up Tralfamadore before, he explains that the time wasn't ripe. Looking more closely to the quote, Barbara's question is more specific. She doesn't just ask why he didn't bring it up before, she asks why he didn't bring it up before the airplane crash. Indicating that Barbara thinks that the reason as to why her father believes all this is because there might be something wrong with him. Personally, I think he could be suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder that was triggered by his airplane crash and his experiences from the war.
Good job analyzing the quote! I also would like to add that I think that Billy may have not wanted to tell the story because of what people would've thought. In this time, Telling stories about being abducted isn't normally accepted. In addition, when finding the meaning of ripe, google says it means rich or intense. Using that definition i think that Billy thought the story wasn't rich enough or didn't feel intense. Also, when Barbara asked the question, she asked if she could ask a SIMPLE question. That shows how she thought it was logical for him to tell people before the plane crash but he didn't which show his uniqueness and the way he thinks compared to everyone else.
DeleteGreat analysis! I wrote about another moment relating to Tralfamadore for my own analysis. I think that Billy may have told the story about these creatures due to his fear from all of the terrible things that had happened to him. He may have brought up Tralfamadore as means of comfort from the outside world. He tends to describe the creatures of Tralfamadore quite positively, highlighting that he is dependent on his own mind and his own story.
DeleteI agree with your reasoning and analysis of this quote. However, I am questioning Billy and his mental state. Maybe Barbara is right; Billy is mentally disabled, at least, especially, after the airplane crash. This would mean that we cant really rely on everything he is saying or believe that what he is saying is true. However, I do agree that the Tralfamadores is a way to feel safe from all the negative events and situations Billy has been in.
DeleteGreat job breaking down and fully understanding the quote!! I didn't even realize this until reading your explanation, but now I completely agree with your analysis. From the flashbacks, it seems that Billy changed drastically after the accident, so he might be suffering mentally. Even his daughter seems to be very worried about him and his mental state.
Delete“And then, without any warning, Billy went to New York City, and got on an all night radio program devoted to talk. He told about having come unstuck in time. He said, too, that he had been kidnapped by a flying saucer in 1967. The saucer was from the planet Tralfamadore, where he was displayed naked in a zoo, he said.” (25)
ReplyDeleteWhy would Billy leave to go to a big city to tell his story about being kidnapped by a saucer?
I think that Billy’s life back home was so normal which made him feel like anything crazy that he would’ve said, they wouldn’t have believed him. Leaving to go to the big city shows how it is a crazier place where they are used to hearing ‘crazy stories’ which is why he went there to tell it. Also, the fact that his daughter Barbara was upset and had to come get him, shows how he still isn’t believed for his stories. He wants to tell the truth according to him and be accepted but his typically normal family and home don’t believe him.
In addition, Billy seems like the type of guy who has a perfect life and everything is set out for him. “ He became rich. He had two children, Barbara and Robert. In time, his daughter married another optometrist, and Billy set him up in business.” (24)
To begin, the name billy is a very plain name but once you get to know them, they are so much more which is what billy in the novel really is. I think that just looking at his life picture from the outside, it looks plain and normal but once you really see or get to know Billy, you can really see how much of an extraordinary person he is and how interesting he is. The name Billy is also a common baby name in english. Based on the quote, it seems like Billy’s life is set up perfectly when in reality, he went through traumatic experiences and he’s a unique person.
Quote: “Somewhere in there was an awful scene, with people expressing disgust for Billy and the woman, and Billy found himself out in his automobile, trying to find the steering wheel. The main thing now was to find the steering wheel. At first, Billy windmilled his arms, hoping to find it by luck. When that didn’t work, he became methodical, working in such a way that the wheel could not possibly escape him. He placed himself hard against the left-hand door, searched every square inch of the area before him. When he failed to find the wheel, he moved over six inches, and searched again. Amazingly, he was eventually hard against the right-hand door, without having found the wheel. He concluded that somebody had stolen it. This angered him as he passed out. He was in the back seat of the car, which was why he couldn’t find the steering wheel” (59-60 large book).
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What is the symbolism behind this passage, given the context of Billy and his current state?
This passage intrigued me due to its symbolism which, when deconstructed, disclosed information about the emotional state of Billy’s life. The steering wheel inside the automobile that Billy “found himself in” symbolizes the steering wheel of his life; with the steering wheel under his control, he is able to persuade the automobile left and right, directing his pathway of life to follow in a similar fashion. Without jurisdiction over the steering wheel, Billy and his car of life careen out of control. Billy cannot find the steering wheel to begin with, even though it is one of, if not the, most prominent features of a car; this indicates a deep lack of self-control, as Billy cannot even find the means to begin his route in the right direction. Subsequently, he tries “luck” and methodology in order to find this embodiment of power, symbolizing the various attempts he has made in redirecting his life. These attempts are to no avail, and Billy is left defeated, demoralized, and fatigued. He wills himself to press “hard against the left-hand door” to which he moves over “six inches” and presses “hard against the right-hand door”, all “without having found the wheel”. This movement of left to right symbolizes the linear progression of Billy’s life, from the left, or beginning of his life, to the right, or end of his life. Perhaps his attempts to find the wheel in this linear graph symbolize his attempts to unearth the stage in his life in which he lost control- was it the beginning, or was it the end? The “six inches” he travels represents the steady continuation of Billy’s life, no matter the turmoil he is undergoing. He is bewildered to find himself at the right end of the car, which highlights the fast movement of time; “six inches” reads so small, but it is no minute measurement when proportioned to measurements such as life, and Billy is suddenly aware of how much times has exceeded him. On this linear trajectory, Billy is unable to find a steering wheel, and he passes out from emotional exhaustion. He is unable to find the wheel because his searches are solely routed from left to right, taking on a two-dimensional manner that renders the three-dimensional hiding place of his wheel undiscovered. This is highlighted by Billy awaking, to find he was sitting in the backseat of his automobile all the while. He failed to move back and forth, instead moving only side to side, which retrospectively inhibited his reclamation of the steering wheel. If he had just taken that leap to the front of the car, deviating from his left to right routine, he would have found the object of his searches. This also coincides with the notion of being “undone in time”; Billy realizes that life is not a left to right, fluid motion, but rather a motion with dimension that one can jump ahead and fall back in. His state in the backseat of his car also symbolizes his previous ignorance of the direction of his life. As he sat in the backseat, he gave permission for others to assume the role as his designated driver.
I find your comparison very between the steering wheel and Billy's life very interesting and accurate. Billy's situation with the steering wheel fits perfectly into what is Billy's real life situation. I also find your comment on orientation and dimension very interesting. This passage and your analogy has helped me visualize and better understand Billy's former ignorance of life and of time. At first I didn't understand his statement of being "undone in time." This passage has given me more understanding as to why Billy became "undone in time" later on in life.
DeleteBilly’s life is also no longer linear. He had to grow up at a much earlier age by being thrown into the war and he increasingly realizes that his sense of time has been thrown off and he is much closer to the end of his life. He can't find the steering wheel because like you have analyzed, he no longer has control over his life because for him life does not happen in a sequence of events, as a young boy he was told to grow up, to learn how to “sink-or-swim”, to be a mature man and go to war, so when he finally hits the time in his life where he is supposed to be an adult due to his age, his brain hasn't even processed what it was like to be a kid however the time to be a kid had already passed and he finds himself coming increasingly closer to being old.
DeleteSorry this is so long- the passage was long and I didn't want to exclude any part of it, as it was all important to my point.
ReplyDelete"He graduated from Ilium High School in the upper third of his class, and attended night sessions at the Ilium School of Optometry for one semester before being drafted for military service during the Second World War. His father died in a hunting accident during the war. So it goes." (24)
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because of it's nonchalant tone. Vonnegut continuously stated his desire to "de-romanticize" war and write a book that portrayed war in it's true horror. However, this passage almost seems to de-humanize war era deaths and death in general, instead of accurately describing it. Vonnegut starts out the passage with a rather unexciting backstory before bluntly revealing Billy's Father's death, then further dehumanizing that death by saying "so it goes". I was wondering if the motif of "so it goes" will continue to be placed after death's, and if so, what is the purpose of it's placement? Perhaps it's an ironic statement meant to contrast with the glorification of death in war.
I agree! I also noticed the repetition of "so it goes" every time death was brought up. I almost feel as if he adds in this phrase to contradict and be sarcastic towards how war is portrayed. I think that he believes that the way war is talked about is very dehumanizing, but by adding in this casual saying after every death, he is making us feel the same way he does about war.
DeleteBilly was no exception. In fact, he had no friends. He was a valet to a preacher, expected no promotions or medals, bore no arms, and had a meek faith in a loving Jesus which most soldiers found putrid" (31).
ReplyDeleteWhy are these men only obliged to or feel the need to have faith in God when he is blessing them, instead of making bad things happen?
Or in other words, What role does religion play in the lives of the men at war?
I feel like this goes all the way back to people not accepting the harsh reality that life is accompanied by not only positivity, but, by negativity also. Billy Pilgrim himself is not a fighting soldier, he is merely a 'valet to a preacher', as stated himself. By elucidating that he does not engage in the same harsh realities as the other soldiers, so he seens to have more faith in Jesus because his life is presumably easier than those of the others. Those at war, who perhaps may feel their lives are hopeless so, they may be blaming this God for making their lives arduous. They seem to have a difficulty grasping that Jesus is with them through the good and bad times.
"Billy first came unstuck while World War Two was in progress"(30).
ReplyDeleteThis quote connects back to earlier in the chapter when Billy is talking to his daughter Barbara. She doesn't believe anything he says about Tralfamadore. She,as well as everyone else, most likely thinks that Billy has gone crazy due to traumatizing events in his life. However, through Billy's eyes he is finally "unstuck". This obsession with being unstuck is saying that while people are wasting their time doing the same routine everyday, his experience in war has shown him that life is too short and is naturally full of unexpected events. Essentially, war represents a wake up call in his life to live and tap into things that would otherwise seem unusual to him.
I definitely agree with your interpretation, but I wonder why he has these hallucinations/flashbacks after the plane crash. I was thinking it maybe because that was another point (or maybe the first) in his life where everyone around him died but he was the sole survivor. This ties back to "wake up calls". The plane crash was his wake up call after encountering a deadly situation outside from his time at war.
Delete“The letter said that they [the creatures from Tralfamadore] were two feet high, and green, and shaped like plumber’s friends… The creatures were friendly, and they could see in four dimensions… They had many wonderful things to teach Earthlings, especially about time. Billy promised to tell what some of those wonderful things were in his next letter” (26).
ReplyDeleteWhat do these unusual creatures represent for Billy? Why is Billy utterly intrigued by them?
The creatures from Tralfamadore represent hope and security for Billy. By writing letters about these imaginary creatures, Billy is coping with the fear and tragedy that occurs in his life throughout time. After a terrible airplane crash for which killed everyone except Billy and after the tragedies of World War II, Billy needs something to find comfort in. He describes that the creatures were friendly and evolved, explaining that they have a lot to teach to humans- specifically about time. As proven by the upsetting events throughout Billy’s life, time is a very confusing concept for him. As time passes, everything seems to get worse. He ultimately relies on his imagination to prove that time can get better, even after experiencing such terrible events. Additionally, Tralfamadorins “can see how permanent all moments are” (27). This adds to the idea that Billy ultimately relies on his own mind for hope as opposed to the realistic human world- which continues to disappoint and traumatize him.
This is a great analysis of the significance of the unusual creatures. I also think that just as Billy is the only one that can tell the teachings of the creatures, he feels that it is necessary to tell the story of the crash, since he is the only survivor. In comparison to Vonnegut and the World War, Billy finds purpose in telling the truth about things others cannot experience.
Delete"He was so hot and bundled up, in fact, that he had no sense of danger. His vision of the outside world was limited to what he could see through a narrow slit between the rim of his helmet and his scarf from home, which concealed his baby face from the bridge of his nose on down. He was so snug in there that he was able to pretend that he was safe at home, having survived the war, and that he was telling his parents and his sister a true war story-whereas the true war story was still going on." (41-42)
ReplyDeleteThis passage intrigued me because it reminds of how in the first chapter, Mary spoke of how "children" are sent to war. So, in this passage, I find it interesting how Vonnegut chose to portray Roland Weary as a baby-faced eighteen-year-old attempting to lead a small pack in war. Even though, he is just a child. Also, it is interesting how Weary has all these layers to protect him from the cold when his biggest danger are the Germans seeking to kill him. All his layers of clothing limiting his sight can relate to the small perspective he sees the world in because he is an inexperienced child set to fight in a war. Which, all sums up to how this is an antiwar book and how "children" are set to fight in wars when they should be at home with their families.
"Little Billy was terrified, because his father had said Billy was going to learn to swim by the method of sink-or-swim." (pg. 43)
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because I thought it really connected well to what the general soldier feels while at war. Billy is explaining this idea of "sink or swim", and how he needs to know how to swim, literally, or else he will die. Connecting this to war, the men in combat are forced to be this stereotypical male who is strong, masculine, and emotionless, or else they will physically not survive and will die. I feel as if Billy was able to overcome the war and become the person he is in the present because he didn't believe in the idea of forcing men to have certain characteristics in order to be the perfect soldier. He is trying to say that "sink or swim" is not ideal for all men, and that having these expectations for men are not realistic.
“Weary looked like Tweedledum and Tweedledee, all bundled up for battle. He was short and Thick” (50-large book).
ReplyDeleteThe description of Weary as a short and thick man reminds me of George and Lennie from Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck. Weary is similar to George, who is chubby and short, however, intelligent and seems of be the savior in times of trouble. However, Lennie is similar to Billy, who is tall and mentally disabled. Vonnegut decides to pair Weary and Billy together in order to portray how some characteristics of both characters are needed in order to survive in their lifetime. For instance, Billy always needs someone bossy in his life to help him make better decisions, and we see this through his relationships with his daughter, Barbara, and Weary. In contrary, Weary needs a slow and calm person in order to help him make less crazy decisions or slow certain actions of him.
ReplyDeleteFortune Ndombo
“When Billy finally got home to Ilium after the airplane crash, he was quiet for a while.” (32)
How is Billy’s story similar to Vonnegut’s? How are they different?
As Billy’s story begins, it starts to sound very similar to Kurt Vonnegut’s experience when trying to write the book at first. Not only does Billy stay speechless for a while, trying to put his experience into words, but, like Vonnegut, he also resorts to fictional tales as a method of coping. I find it interesting how Vonnegut explains the origins of the phrase “So it goes”, but uses the delusional rant of a veteran to do so. I wonder if by doing so he wanted the reader to view death as something to be indifferent about as past memories still exist, like the Tralfamadorians said. Or perhaps, because Billy is some what unstable, we should never look back at the past and live life in the moment. Maybe Vonnegut is calling attention to the fact that this type of mentality, the latter, if how young soldiers think, and are all the worst for it. The concept of time is a big theme that I noticed between the two chapters. I believe Billy is “unstuck in time” in a way that is supposed to portray Vonnegut’s message that wars are fought by babies.
As many of us probably have, I simply cannot stop thinking about what Vonnegut means when he says "so it goes". Obviously he includes everything in Billy's story for a reason. So to say "so it goes" as much as he does, it is more than clear he wants us to take something away about it. It just bothers me that I personally still do not understand what he is trying to convey through this phrase. I definitely see your point, about his usage of Billy as an outlet to talk about his experiences. Hopefully later in the book a light bulb appears in my head, and it just hits me and I know what Vonnegut is trying to tell me, tell us rather haha. I thought the same things as you when I was reading the book though.
Delete“Little Billy was terrified, because his father had said Billy was going to learn to swim by the method of sink-or-swim. His father was going to throw Billy into the deep end, and Billy was going to damn well swim. It was like an execution. Billy was numb as his father carried him from the shower room to the pool. His eyes were closed. When he opened his eyes, he was on the bottom of the pool, and there was beautiful music everywhere. He lost consciousness, but the music went on. He dimly senses that somebody was rescuing him. Billy resented that” (44).
ReplyDeleteWhen Billy’s father throws him into a sink or swim situation, Billy immediately gives up and decides to sink to the bottom of the pool which represents the same attitude that he has towards the war when he tells the other soldiers in the army to go on without him. It's interesting that Vonnegut keeps the theme of Billy’s acceptance towards death at such a young age until he becomes what the government believes to be “a grown man”, however as Mrs. O’Hare stated earlier in the novel, these men are just boys, many haven't even started their lives outside of the hole they grew up in and all of a sudden they are thrown into a very adult and mature situation where they either sink, or they swim. Billy describes having to sink-or-swim as “an execution. Billy was numb as his father carried him from the shower room to the pool” (45). Vonnegut is critiquing how fathers contribute to machismo culture by treating their sons as mature men but in the end these boys only grow up to be immature and unprepared for life. Vonnegut begins his story of Billy Pilgrim with “Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time” because instead of time being chronological; child, teenager, young adult, adult, and then elder. However Billy’s childhood was debased by being thrown into war when he was still a child. So when his father throws him into the pool and executes him, it symbolizes how his family killed his childhood by throwing him into the war and believing that this way he will learn how to be an adult however Billy will always be a child because he had to learn how to grow up at a young age.
"Fèvre argued that the picture was fine art, and that his intention was to make Greek mythology come alive. He said the columns and the potted palm proved that. When asked which myth he meant to represent, Le Fèvre replied that there were thousands of myths like that, with the woman a mortal and the pony a god. He was sentenced to six months in prison. He died there of pneumonia." (P. 52 Big Book)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: What does this somewhat random passage about someone being arrested for selling a picture have to do with the story of Billy Pilgrim?
This passage I find very interesting and thought provoking but I cannot draw any specific connection to the rest of the story. I can definitely draw a few broader connections to the story though. The jumping around between different scenes and in different moments definitely speaks to the notion of being "unstuck in time." This passage also adds on to Vonnegut's very satirical "so it goes..." This is just another example of something very out of the ordinary. It is followed by no explanation and yet another "So it goes."
I agree with you, wholeheartedly; I think it definitely plays a part in the book because it is so random. The book has already taken the persona of being overwhelming in the sense that it is constantly changing time periods and scenes. I also feel, however, that it may not have been random at all because it reveals a lot about Weary's character (as he is filthy minded and peculiar). And I feel that learning about a character so closely associated with Billy could be very important. I think what was so thought provoking about this passage (to me, at least), though, was Fèvre replying with, "there were thousands of myths like that." I personally have never heard of a myth like that besides the similar myth of a centaur so those words really intrigued me. I actually searched it up and it seems to be a false history which makes me wonder where and why Vonnegut thought up this random tidbit. Weird...
Delete“Weary drew back his right foot, aimed a kick at the spine, at the tube which has so many of Billy’s important wires in it. Weary was going to break that tube” (51).
ReplyDeleteThis passage seemed particularly important for reasons including the character’s name and the mention of a “tube.” Firstly, the use of the name “Weary” is interesting because it means feeling or showing fatigue which is interesting because, leading up to this passage, it is clear how tired Weary is from being ditched over and over again. It is also interesting to witness the build up of this character so far; he has that “whatever” attitude and acts as if he doesn’t care what could happen to the people around him when, in reality, he’s saved Billy’s life numerous times. To add, when Vonnegut describes the spine as a tube with important wires, it implies that as imperative as it may be, it is also flexible (because tubes bend easily). By this implication, I began to think about the fact that if you were to break something that bends, you would have to be putting a lot of force and pressure onto it. This is rather strange to consider because if you’re putting lots of force onto something then it is painful, yet Billy was laughing when he was getting attacked by Weary. It is also weird that Weary aims at Billy for as long as he did because he could’ve simply kicked him plenty of times and eventually, broken his spine. It made me wonder if Weary really did want to kill Billy. Afterall, why would you kill someone after making so many sacrifices in saving his life?
"Toward the end of maneuvers, Billy was given an emergency furlough home because his father, a barber in Ilium, New York, was shot dead by a friend while they were out hunting deer. So it goes." (32)
ReplyDeleteWhy is Billy so emotionless to the death of his father?
While I was reading, I realized that every time a death or any other traumatic event occurred, Billy ended it with the phrase, "so it goes". But what really shocked me was that when discussing the death of his father, Billy also ended it with "so it goes". He used that phrase to discuss the death of random people, but then did it for his father. This makes me realize that some time in his life, he became almost emotionless. This makes me wonder about how mentally stable Billy is and how much the plane crash impacted him and his life.
"Billy didn't answer her, so she was nearly hysterical, expecting to find his corpse. And then she looked into the very last place there was to look,"(p.28)
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't Billy answer, and why was he looking to comfort others, but unable to comfort his own daughter?
Billy want to help others, as he made clear. He is happy and warm inside thinking of how his letter would comfort people about death, and he does not respond as his daughter runs frantically around the house searching for him. As a child he was thrown into war and forced to grow up, now he is forcing his daughter to grow up by being unable to respond. He offers her no help, only worry as he writes letters about aliens. He is so focused on comforting the world he cannot comfort those who are closes to him. He also seems very concerned with releasing his truth. He is so focused that he barely even notices that he is ignoring his daughter. Also that the place she found him was the "very last place there was to look" shows how they are on completely separate pages. The first place he when was the last place she looked. To her there was no reason for him to be there, while to him it was very important. His daughter is very grounded in reality while he is floating it make believe. She shows how disconnected from the present Billy really is as he talks to aliens and hops through time.
The orchestration of the moment was this: Barbara was only twenty-one years old, but she thought her father was senile, even though he was only forty-six-senile because of damage to his brain in the airplane crash. She also thought that she was head of the family, since she had had to manage her mother's funeral, since she had to get a housekeeper for Billy, and all that. Also, Barbara and her husband were having to look after Billy's business interests, which were considerable, since Billy didn't seem to give adamn for business any more. All this responsibility at such an early age made her a bitchy flibbertigibbet. And Billy, meanwhile, was trying to hang onto his dignity, to persuade Barbara and everybody else that he was far from senile, that, on the contrary, he was devoting himself to a calling much higher than mere business. He was doing nothing less now, he thought, then prescribing corrective lenses for Earthling souls. So many of those souls were lost and wretched, Billy believed, because they could not see as well as his little green friends on Tralfamadore
ReplyDeleteThis quote allows us to see the family dynamics in this house hold. Barbara had to grow up very quickly because of everything that she has experienced in her life like her mother dying and her believing her father is senile. "she thought that she was the head of the family"
because of billy's plane crash and his daughters assumptions of him being senile he has no control of his home or life Barbara hired a house cleaner does his business and overall control's him. All billy wants to do is prove that hes not senile and safe souls .
Quote: “When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks about is that the dead person is in bad conditions in that particular moment, but that the same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is: ‘So it goes.’” (34)
ReplyDeleteWhat is the significance of Vonnegut’s attitude towards death to this novel?
Death is typically a dark subject, filled with sorrow and grievance. Vonnegut’s attitude towards death connects deeply with his experience and knowledge of time, in the sense that everything is constant and permanent, just in different circumstances. Just because something theoretically ceases to be in that current moment, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist for another moment and isn’t as valid. I think that this attitude/knowledge will allow us to be able to get a better understanding of the story than you typically would from someone vulnerable to emotional tendencies.
"The oil burner had quit. A mouse had eaten through the insulation of a wire leading to the thermostat. The temperature in the house was down to fifty degrees, but Billy hadn't noticed. He wasn't warmly dressed either. He was barefoot, and still in his pajamas and a bathrobe, though it was late afternoon. His bare feet were blue and ivory." (35)
ReplyDeleteWhile the book its supposed to be comedic and satirical, this seems like it also brings out some of the darkness within the novel. Despite not being a particularly depressing scene in the novel, Vonnegut uses symbolism and tone to foreshadow and realistically portray the feelings and lifelessness of some of the people in Dresden post-bombing. In war and in grief, there are often times where someone is described as "shutting off" where they cut out everything; they just feel numb. This gives off that mood by explaining Billy's lack of realization that the thermostat was broken and his wearing pajamas all throughout the day. In addition to this, dead bodies are also cold. The coldness of his house could represent the feelings of the other people in the novel, how they could feel dead inside. Finally, the color blue (which is how his feet are described) seemed symbolic. While it could be interpreted in many ways, one particular way it could be thought of is how the color blue is affiliated with sadness. This could be symbolic of the way the people of Dresden felt following the bombing.
"Billy has gone to sleep a senile widower and awakened on his wedding day. He has walked through a door in 1955 and come out another one in 1941. He has gone back through that door to find himself in 1963. He has seen his birth and death many times, he says, and pays random visits to all the events in between." (23)
ReplyDeleteThis entire passage alludes to time travel, but I feel this is misdirection. Obviously in a fact-based book, there wont be time travel, which is why I think that this is something else. "Billy has gone to sleep a senile widower" shows that he is old in age, and therefore may not be in tip top shape, especially after going through the dresden bombing. He "wakes on his wedding day", which is impossible in reality. This leads me to believe he has some sort of disorder, be it Multiple personality disorder or schizophrenia. This is supported because he is unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, waking up in different time periods in his life. The war may have affected him in a way that has changed him, as it did for many other veterans. "He has no control over where he is going next."(23) Later in the page, this quote shows how despite his best efforts, he cant stay grounded in the present and instead has NO control, another symptom of both of the illnesses listed above. Billy suffered many tragedies in his life, with the war, his wife dying, being the only survivor in a plane crash and more. The guilt and sadness that likely built inside him may have driven him to insanity, where he developed a mental disorder. If any more time skips occur in the book, it may be a motif for his mental illness.
This would have gone through way earlier, but i closed out of the page and i thought it went through. When I checked back before I went to bed it wasnt there. i retyped it here and will make sure the thing goes through next time.
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