Well hello there, old friend! The blog is back. For this post, please:
1) Read and thoroughly annotate Chapter 2, and then choose a passage that stands out to you/intrigues you/confuses you. Type up the passage, in its entirety, and cite it.
2) Then, either:
- Ask a question and work through your confusion in a thorough response. Call on your classmates to also engage with this passage and unpack it together. OR--
- Look at specific language/literary devices/tools and write a response in which you examine the EFFECT of these devices. What do these observations that you've made DO for the novel?
Some reminders:
- Make sure that you BOTH create your own comment and also respond to a classmate's comment.
- Sign in using your full name so that your first and last name appear next to your comment.
- Make sure that you comment under your band
- Don't repeat classmates' passages. If someone has already used yours, then respond to it directly and choose another. There's plenty to discuss.
- Your comment should be at least 5-7 sentences or longer. Your reply to a classmate should be a thorough reply that pushes the conversation forward by asking follow-up questions and/or making connections to other parts of novel or other works. The use of textual evidence in a response is a great way to keep the conversation going!
- Please use appropriate grammar/punctuation. This is NOT a text message.
- Blog posts are due by 10pm the night before class. Let's get this done at a reasonable hour, people! 
“He spoke unintelligibly of the sacrifices he had made on Billy’s behalf. He dilated upon the piety and heroism of ‘The Three Musketeers,’ portrayed, in the most glowing and impassioned hues, their virtue and magnanimity, the imperishable honor they acquired for themselves, and the great services they rendered to Christianity’ (51).
ReplyDeleteRoland Weary’s continuous made-up war story reflects the media and society’s opinion on war, which begins and ends with the “bravery” of soldiers, and does not acknowledge the trauma that comes with war. This idea of heroism is so poignant that Weary essentially has an alternate reality playing in his mind throughout the war of him and his brave friends fighting for “imperishable honor” (51). His fictional story has absolutely no basis in fact, with him drastically exaggerating the friendship of the soldiers, his own bravery, and the effect of their work in the war, showing the pressure from society on soldiers to live out a glorified (often movie-like) version of war. This also connects to the moment in Chapter 1 when Mary O’Hare accuses him of lying about the war in his books, claiming “You’ll pretend you were men instead of babies, and you’ll be played in the movies by Frank Sinatra and John Wayne or some of those other glamorous, war-loving, dirty old men. And war will look just wonderful, so we’ll have a lot more of them” (14). Mary’s anger at the way that war is represented in their society causes her outburst at Vonnegut, assuming that he would only contribute to the harmful portrayal that causes men like Weary to alter their own reality in order to fit with the media’s depiction of war.
“When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in bad condition in that particular moment, but that same person is just fine in plenty of other moments. Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is ‘So it goes’” (34).
ReplyDeleteThis passage reminded me of how Vonnegut, despite the trauma he experiences as a prisoner of war in Dresden, still ends up having a family, or what people tend to perceive as a “normal” life. The Tralfamadorian’s way of looking at a person’s life as a series of moments directly connects to Vonnegut, and how his time as a prisoner of war was just one moment and that it does not define the rest of his life. In addition, “so it goes” as a means of declaring the end of one’s life further exemplifies how these moments are continuous and only represent a specific part of life. Alos, by referring to death as a “bad condition” emphasizes this while also providing a different perspective on death. Billy’s Tralfamadorians see trauma as merely a condition of the human state, and death is, as a result, simply a bad condition that is neither avoidable or controllable. On another note, this viewpoint, in my opinion, seems controversial because simply shrugging and concluding, “so it goes” diminish a person’s life, and contradicts the importance of each moment in time. In other words, while the Tralfamadorians may see a person as a representation of their entire life, and not just their death, “so it goes” brushes death off.
I really liked your interpretation of Vonnegut’s strategic inclusion of “so it goes”. Initially, I too viewed this as his way of creating a coping mechanism not only for Billy Pilgrim, but perhaps for himself. However, having read your post, I now find a bigger connection than just a coping mechanism. Specifically, there appears to be a relationship between male expectations and “so it goes,” where Vonnegut is in a way, getting over every traumatic occurrence in the novel, or as you put it simply accepting that death is inevitable and uncontrollable. The connection you make to time is also fascinating as it is a theme that I hadn’t fully been able to recognize. This theme brought me to further question, what is the significance of time in the novel and will it have an impact on the ending of the novel?
DeleteI loved this quote from the book, because looking at death and time like that is personally beautiful to me. But, the fact that Billy will see time and death in this manner I feel will effect the book dramatically. I think this will help Billy with his grieving pattern throughout the book. On the other hand this makes me predict if the climax will be someone dying like chapter one says. I personally think otherwise because Billy responds to death as a if it's nothing or the person has a cold. As the Tralfamadorians see a corpse as someone not being well in that particular moment. With the orrcence of death being so frequent I think it is important to watch the way Billy reacts to death and if it will be more drastic. Do you think Billy will have a break down about death or will he always brush over it?
DeleteIn response to your question, I think Billy’s various moments of tragedy and tribulation have normalized the conception of death, and thus, he will always “brush over it”. In fact, I believe this attitude towards “brushing over” death is beautiful because it reinforces the notion that nothing is temporary and that everything is permanent in existence. In correspondence to your ideas, death is simply inevitable and a part of the circle of life. Yet, Billy also recognizes the “illusion” that Earth has cultivated to regularize the idea that moments pass and go. Here, earthlings view death as the absolute end to one’s life (which he asserts as an outright falsehood of nature). Thus, I would like to probe the question, what is temporary? What is permanent? Which one is the misconception – the “illusion” of life? I believe this also raises another set of questions pertaining to time. On one hand, Billy deems that the cycle of life and death continues as time persists. But how does time exist? Is time subjective or objective? Does everyone live throughout their own times? How does time perception play into one’s views of life? How should time be measured? How does permanence and time correlate?
DeleteI agree with your analysis in which 'so it goes' diminishes a person's life. I feel like people like Billy diminish death because it's too hard to face the fact that death is hard, and especially as a war veteran you may even feel guilt that you're the one who survived.
DeleteI agree that "so it goes" seems to address death as a normality, as the witness of death time and time again becomes instilled into Vonnegut's head. Same goes for any action for any other individual. Whether it be habits, or for example the buildings you see everyday, where New York City seems to be normal to us as everyday civilians, yet tourists are amazed. Likewise, death for Vonnegut is something he's witnessed numerous times, while a normal civilian might mourn at even the concept of death.
Delete“His vision of the outside world was limited to what he could see through a narrow slit between the rim of his helmet and his scarf from home” (41).
ReplyDeleteRoland Weary is a mean-spirited soldier intent on creating an image for himself as Billy’s war-time savior. Throughout the Chapter 2 reading, Weary seems to be empowered by what war offers to him, glory. However, his own reality of war is so guarded by what is fed to him by his home. For instance, previously in the book, Roland is described having pamphlets entitled “Know Your Enemy”(40) and “Why We Fight” (40), which he’d “received from home” (39). This shows the standing influence his home life holds on him, where the presence of the war in his life from that point on was heavily brought forth by his family’s approval. Furthermore, in the quote on p. 41, Weary is described as only being able to “see through a narrow slit between the rim of his helmet and his scarf from home” (41). This quote caught my eyes as it appeared to be highlighting just how wrapped up these young male fighters are in their home’s validation as well as their encouraging views of the war. Only being able to see through a “narrow slit,” (41) due to the helmet and scarf from home, further brings up Billy Pilgrim’s point of how Roland Weary’s positive vision of the war, for instance, was being limited to what Weary’s family back home saw in the war.
I completely agree with your analysis of Weary’s limited view of the world around him. This quote and your analysis relates to Weary’s made up story of the war that glorifies the fighting and ignores trauma. He is so intent on living out a story of which he is the brave hero that he can barely see the reality in front of him. He is so affected by the ideas of war from home that he refuses to see the truth of war. It seems to me that Weary represents the societal opinion on war, which is more relevant to Billy Pilgrim than the society itself because it comes from his fellow soldier. My question is: Will what ultimately happens to Weary over the course of the story parallel society’s rigid conception of war?
DeleteI do not think that Weary's experiences will parallel his conception of war. I think Vonnegut in this book is trying to high light the truth, or his truth about war. Weary represents many people's, and maybe even Vonnegut's ideas about war. His ideas were drastically changed however after he had been through it. I think that is what will happen to Weary. He starts out with this conception and it will change throughout the book.
DeleteI agree with Harper. I think this quote has more to do with Vonnegut's ideas of war and how the young are sent off to fight. When the text states, "Between the rim of his helmet and his scarf from home, which concealed his baby face from the bridge of his nose on down" (41). Vonnegut seems to be telling us that these boys have to go to war and push aside or cover their youth and the fact that they are not ready for war. I assumed that the "narrow slit" was that they are young and have seen limited things in life. That their whole world has been home and now this war.
DeleteI also agree with Harper and Rafaella. Vonnegut is demonstrating that society has created a false image for what war truly is. The quote, "Between the rim of his helmet and his scarf from home, which concealed his baby face from the bridge of his nose on down" (41), shows us how little knowledge people have going into war, and their expectations can be greatly disproved later on. Throughout what we have read so far Vonnegut has tried to portray that war changes people, therefore I believe that Weary's path will not follow how society view's war.
Delete“Last came Billy Pilgrim, empty-handed, bleakly ready for death. Billy was preposterous- six feet and 3 inches tall, with a chest and shoulders like a box of kitchen matches. He had no helmet, no overcoat, no weapon, and no boots … He didn’t look like a soldier at all. He looked like a filthy flamingo.” (p.42)
ReplyDeleteWhile I read this quote, it reminded me the feeling when you lose everything. In movies this happens a lot before the climax. It’s this extended feeling of isolation and fear, until the main character makes the grand gesture and everything ends okay/now their life is fulfilled. I think at this point in Billy’s life he is at the moment before the climax. I also found it ironic that Billy became a soldier, after such a pivotal moment in his life like his father dying. It was like Billy was setting himself up for suicide. As if going to the army was his way of grieving with death. Do you think Billy was trying to set himself up for failure by joining the army? Was the choice to go war out of grief?
“He asked Billy what he thought the worst form of execution was...The correct answer turned out to be this: ‘You stake a guy out on an anthill in the desert--see? He’s facing upward, and you put honey all over his balls and pecker, and you cut off his eyelids so he has to stare at the sun till he dies.’ So it goes” (37).
ReplyDeleteKurt Vonnegut’s casual manner of addressing death seems to normalize it. However, in Chapter 2, Vonnegut even goes to the extent of romanticizing murder. Roland Weary’s fascination with the “worst form of execution” glorifies assassination, giving it an art-like essence. He sees the grim and gruesome aspects of death as a form of beauty. The specificity of Weary’s means of execution also suggest that committing murder should be a meticulous act. For example, when he remarks, “you stake a guy out on an anthill,” and “cut off his eyelids so he has to stare at the sun.” Weary wants death to be painful and long lasting and thus puts great time and consideration into planning what he considers to be the worst form of execution.
I agree with your analysis, as I also think that Vonnegut's numerous mentions of death in such a casual manner diminish its importance. When Weary was explaining what he thought the actual best form of execution was in this passage, I was also reminded of why Slaughterhouse-Five is also called The Children's Crusade, because Weary's graphic description of this form of execution turns the act of killing into a game. Despite the fact that Weary is a soldier and is typically surrounded by death most of the time, he turns violence into a sport by not only talking about the killing others, but actually beating up Billy at one point. It's somewhat immature of Weary to almost joke about death with so much loss around him, which again underlines how he is just a young guy who is being exposed to a lot of violence for his age.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI think that this glorification and normalization for the gruesome scenes in this book relate back to when Mary O’Hare talks to Vonnegut about writing a war book. She said that he'd be lying if he wrote a book about the war because he would make the war look “wonderful.” I think the character Weary was put into Slaughterhouse Five to highlight the way that war is in fact glorified, by the people fighting in it. However I do not think Vonnegut intends for the reader to exit with the idea that war is glorious or normal. I think that by putting Weary into the story he intends to do the opposite.
Delete' "Yes sir," said one of the scouts. "We'd like to stick together for the rest of the war, sir. Is there some way that you can fix it that nobody will ever break up the Three Musketeers?" (43).
ReplyDeleteVonnegut writes about Billy as if he was an outsider because that is how he felt both during and after the war. Billy thinks of himself as out of place and not wanted by the other soldiers, which reflects the isolation he felt in war. From the quote you get a sense of a band of brothers, inseparable, with Billy looking in from the outside felling he doesn't belong. Many veterans feel alone when they come back and have a hard time integrating into society. This could also contribute to why Vonnegut made Billy such an out cast, to reflect how he feels. Later on Weary says, "He's gonna owe his life to the Three Musketeers" (48). This further demonstrates Billy feeling that he does not belong almost like he is a burden, because he needs the help of the other soldiers. Vonnegut may have felt all the other soldiers belonged and were capable while he was not.
I agree with the point you make about Vonnegut feeling isolated and expressing it through billy. This reflects the veterans that we see today in our society which helps us relate to Billy.
Delete"Billy was disgracefully drunk at a party where everybody was in optometry or married to an optometrist" (46).
ReplyDeleteThroughout the chapter, I saw multiple accounts regarding optometrist/optometry in which I began to question what Vonnegut is trying to convey about eyes, visual defects people have, and the prescription of correct lenses? What are THESE lenses? What is the irony of Billy being surrounded by such people including his father-in-law and his daughter, Barbra's husband, yet being seen as crazy/different? Taking into account that Billy was with a group of optometrists when the plane crash occurred which later leads to his claims about "Tralfamadore" what does this show about their society and the effects it has on the people within it? Much like Billy and him being "disgracefully drunk" surrounded by people who later frown upon him which later leads to him entering his car and not being able to find the steering wheel. Is this Vonnegut showing us that people who do not see the world in the "correct lenses" will lose control over their lives in which I connected to Billy's alcohol abuse which I saw being a result over the constant scrutiny and pressure being put on Billy to be and act a certain way?
As an optometrist, Billy and his comrades are responsible for enabling the sight of their patients. They are able to shape and influence the way people see the world. In Slaughterhouse Five, Vonnegut introduces his own anti war ideology, posing a new perspective of sight. The motif of optometry and optometrists seems to call attention to the higher powers that influence our ideologies. For example, when Billy describes himself as "prescribing corrective lenses for Earthling souls" that were "lost and wretched" (29). He captures the impotence of the blind individual, being "lost" and "wretched." Those who cannot see for themselves put their sight and trust into the hands of more powerful individuals, optometrists.
Delete“It made Weary sick to be ditched. When Weary was ditched, he would find somebody who was even more unpopular than himself, and he would horse around with that person for a while, pretending to be friendly. And then he would find some pretext for beating the shit out of him. It was a pattern. It was a crazy, sexy, murderous relationship Weary entered into with people he eventually beat up” (44-45).
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the passage, I found an interesting correlation between Billy Pilgrim and Ronald Weary. Essentially, they represent two different, yet authentic products of tragedy, tribulation, and suffering. As Billy Pilgrim undergoes various moments of devastation throughout his adulthood - the death of his father, his wife, the sickness of his mother, and the countless number of casualties pertaining to the war, he plunges into the depths of hopelessness, seclusion, isolation, apathy, and indifference. Ultimately, his attempts to escape the harsh realities of his life lead him to plummet into the artificial atmosphere of illusion and hallucination. On the other hand, Ronald Weary channels his experiences of hardship (regarding his childhood and the war) towards utter violence and hatred. When the two scouts ditch Billy and Weary during their trek to another base, Weary’s vicious efforts to attack Billy reflects his instinctual need to pursue in this “pattern”, as it acts as a coping mechanism to satisfy his impulsive desires. His bloodlust for torture, cruelty, and murder stem from his memories of solitude as well as from physical and verbal abuse. This reaction is only natural for the oppressed human mind. In time, solitude turns the human heart into a cold-blooded spirit. Eventually, one’s impetuous id takes over and kills all traces of morality.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete“He (Billy) was a valet to a preacher, expected no promotions or medals, bore no arms, and had a meek faith in a loving Jesus which most soldiers found putrid,” (38)
ReplyDeleteThroughout this reading Vonnegut uses religion in both negative and positive contexts, which makes me wonder what Vonnegut himself feels about religion. It is mentioned later that Billy's father "had no religion" (48) and his mother never joined a church. Billy was a part of a family that was not at all religious yet he somehow ended up as a valet to a preacher. This got me wondering where, why, and how Billy got into religion and how it changed him. The fact that the other soldiers scorn Billy for his faith in a “loving Jesus” shows how people had truly lost compassion and hope during the war. In this passage, Vonnegut describes Billy in a way that makes him sound pitiful and weak. He differentiates between Billy and the other soldiers, through beliefs, appearances, and actions. This addition of religion creates an even larger gap between Billy and everyone else. I think that this gap sets the stage for explanations as to how Billy sees his own movement through time and his Tralfamadorian adventures whereas how everyone else sees them
“He didn't look like a soldier at all. He looked like a filthy flamingo…the third bullet was for the filthy flamingo, who stopped dead center in the road when the lethal bee buzzed past his ear” (33).
ReplyDeleteIt feels that Vonnegut has no compassion for his characters. He often jabs at them and seems distant, leading me to question why he chooses to speak in a way like he's just along for the ride. As we discussed in class I believe that this tone adds to the idea that for him war is inevitable and by being distant he demonstrates this to us. When Vonnegut compares the bullet to a bee he clearly is trying to relate war and nature. The bullet is as natural to the world as a bee.
" All this responsibility at such an early age made her a bitchy flibbertigibbet. And Billy, meanwhile, was trying to hang onto his dignity" (330).
ReplyDeleteThis quote tapped into the discussion of responsibility given to Billy (Kurt Vonnegut) at a young age. When Mary O’Hare said that the war was fought by babies she was saying that they didn't understand the meaning of war and therefore Kurt Vonnegut could not analyze his experience in a novel. The amount of responsibility laid on the backs of young boys during the war could be seen as a terrible burden, however people deal with it differently, Billy, (Kurt) wanted to come back, write a book and make some money. I see this as a source of denial similar to when he says “so it goes”. Instead of trying to understand what he went through , or sympathizing he lets it go , undermining the unfortunate event brought upon him and others.
I agree that putting 'children' through a traumatic experience can cause people to deal with it in different ways. However, I also think the 'so it goes' comments are a casual approach to a serious and complex situation. I think it relates back to the concept of time, and how everything just happens the way that it does. These things just happen and while Vonnegut learns that he can't control these events (while many occur during his lifetime) it also helps him cope with it.
DeleteI do not think that Billy is letting it go, I actually think he is trying to understand just in a different way. For example when he talks about seeing life as all the moments in his life to define him and not as moments after moments. This is just a different way of looking at life. In some ways Billy and his daughter can relate so he is being almost a hypocrite.
DeleteI agree with your reasoning for why you think Kurt Vonnegut (Billy) says "so it goes" but as i continue reading, I notice a lot of mixed emotions given. Kurt describes a lot of traumatic experiences and adds something funny to them which is the way i think he deals with the war issues.
Delete“But then Weary saw that he had an audience. Five German soldiers and a police dog on a leash were looking down into the bed of the creek. The soldiers' blue eyes were filled with a bleary civilian curiosity as to why one American would try to murder another one so far from home, and why the victim should laugh” (51).
ReplyDeleteThis passage represents the loss of humanity and innocence as a result of war. Society has glamorized the idea of war through the many movies and novels on the topic. And while many say that fighting in a war is a courageous and protecting our country, soldiers are essentially committing the act of murder. The great amount of responsibility and burden laid on the soldiers force them to become emotionally detached, such as in Weary’s case. This pain can completely twist the minds of young men, ridding them of their true self. Even though Ronald Weary and Billy Pilgrim are one the same side and, in that moment, in danger, the war has caused Weary to lose control and let an almost animalistic instinct get the better of him. Vonnegut is commenting on the harsh reality of war vs. society’s common misconception that war is a wonderful thing where everyone leaves a hero.
I agree that Vonnegut highlights the effect war has on soldiers, 'war makes soldiers loose their humanity and innocence.' However, I see this passage being a stronger representation of Billy wanting to be dead. I don’t see either Weary or Billy loosing any humanity or innocence in this passage because Weary has already lost his innocence and humanity. "It made Weary sick to be ditched... he would find somebody who was even more unpopular than himself... then he would find some pretext for beating the shit out of them" (35). Moreover, throughout the chapter Billy has said 'go on without me' which shows that Billy has also lost his innocence and humanity. However, as Weary unleashes all of his anger on Billy, Billy is laughing because maybe he will finally die. Billy is happy, he is accepting death with a smile. On the contrary, Vonnegut writes " Billy was involuntarily making convulsive sounds that were a lot like laughter" (51). The laughter the German soldiers are confused to hear may not be a representation of Billy being happy that he may die, the laughter could purely be accidental. Regardless, the significance of laughter in a moment where the protagonist could possibly die is significant because it is opposite of an expected reaction. Regardless of the laughter being purely accidental or a sign of welcoming death, Billy is seen by the soldiers as interesting. The astonished soldiers see one American soldier baby murdering a laughing American soldier baby, which is purely weird, and a little unsettling in itself.
Delete"Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug my shoulders and say what the Tralfamadorians say about dead people, which is 'So it Goes.' "(34).
ReplyDeleteI think by incoorperating this passage about who the Tralfamadorians were the ones who got him started on saying "So it goes" makes more sense. Before that, I thought Billy was a physco who didn't care about anyone else. Also, the fact that he shrugs his shoulders shows his lack of care while having an understanding in the view of the Tralfamadorians for what is really happening to the dead corpse. Furthermore, in the rest of the book, I think that the Tralfamadorians will show more of an affect on Billy and the way he tells his story. Such as his beliefs and the way he views life after seeing it from a different perspective in a different time.
I agree with some of your points on the importance and meaning of this passage - but I disagree when you point out that he lacks care for the dead person when he shrugs his shoulders and says "So it goes". The entirety of the second chapter boils down to two perspectives, which are Billy's and the rest of the world. His coping mechanism and philosophy on death don't display his lack of compassion, instead they show how his trauma have caused him to perceive complex ideas that constantly surround and confuse us as humans differently. His philosophies should not reflect on his personality, but rather how they connect to his experiences.
Delete“…scarf from home, which concealed his baby face… He was so snug in there that he was able to pretend that he was safe at home, having survived the war, and that he was telling his parents and his sister a true war story – whereas the true war story was still going on” (42).
ReplyDeleteIn the first chapter of the novel we learn the perspective this book is being written from, babies in war. Billy Pilgrim’s observation of Weary further proves that these are babies in war with baby faces who want to be home with their families, not grown men. Furthermore, the description of Weary’s “scarf from home, which concealed his baby face” (42) depicts the baby Weary physically is and how Weary wants to be home more then anything so he wears everything he has from home to feel safer. Billy observes that “he was able to pretend that he was safe at home” (42) which shows the prominent child that is Weary. Weary, like Billy wants to be home, not fighting in a war. From what we read, one could make the automatic conclusion that Weary is a strong, vicious, cold hearted person. However, with closer analysis, Weary is a scared little boy who wishes he was home with his family. Moreover, the name Weary has its own connotation of being tired, worn-out, fatigued, exhausted, etc. which is a more accurate description of who Weary really is.
I agree with your statement, that Weary is just a "baby" and the fact that he is fighting a war is rather horrifying. Something that could strengthen your argument is the superiority and antagonistic actions that Weary shows toward Billy, who is also just a baby. Billy is about 19, about a year older then Weary, yet Weary teases Billy by calling "Joe college" or saying, "There is more to life then what you read in books." Weary is acting like a child by antagonizing Billy. His actions are just another example of his immaturity and adolescence and makes the readers think about whether a not a boy this age and this crass really should be fighting a war. It also further underlines Mary O'hare's statement that, "Baby's fight wars" by showing how his actions are of those of a young child because he is a young child.
Delete"The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present, and future, always have existed, always will exist." (27)
ReplyDeleteThis passage was very interesting because it related back to the idea of time. The chapter starts with "Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time" and later says, "Billy is spastic in time, has no control over where he is going next...". This is significant to this passage because it talks about how Billy has no control over time. Yet, in this passage, one of the things Billy learned was that time was pre-planned, and every moment will always exist and remain 'alive'. This idea helps Billy come to terms with the nature of time. Also, one question this passage provoked is how does this passage and view on life/death relate to what Vonnegut encountered in his life?
I definitely think that the object of time is going to be big symbolic device used throughout the novel. When Kurt Vonnegut starts the novel with “Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time “ he is announcing that he controls time in the novel , this could relate to his sense of no control during the attacks in Dresden. It's a possibility he wanted a place where HE had control over what happened and what didn't, which was the opposite of what happened when he was a P.O.W, he was under the constant control of others.
Delete"'The most important thing I learned Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral...Now, when I myself hear that somebody is dead, I simply shrug and say what the Tralfmadorians say about dead people, which is 'So it goes'"(26-27).
ReplyDeleteI feel like this passage shows many differences between Billy Pilgrim and Kurt Vonnegut. They are different in which many can argue that Vonnegut has post-war guilt, and he is guilty that he stayed alive through the war when many soldiers didn't. Vonnegut takes death very seriously. However, many can that Pilgrim takes death very loosely and even says he 'simply shrugs' when hearing about a death. I wonder why they take death so differently given that they are both veterans?
I found this passage very interesting as he talks about another perspective to look about people who pass away. I like how in a way he keeps it positive and thinks it is silly to cry at a funeral. He views death and the funeral in a positive way because he focuses on the things they accomplished in their past. I think this is very important in this novel because it is somewhat focused on war, which involves and features a lot of death, but while defending ones country.
DeleteI agree with what you are saying to some extent, but I also think this passage highlights a key coping mechanism fro both Billy Pilgrim and Kurt Vonnegut in terms of death. Vonnegut seemed to simply brush of death and even talk about it in a funny manner in the same sense that Billy doesn't even take death seriously because he doesn't necessarily believe in it. I also really like thinking about Billy as viewing death as just something that happens over the course of a life, but not necessarily the end of a life.
Delete"Early in 1968, a group of optometrists, with Billy among them, chartered an airplane to fly them from Ilium to an international convention of optometrists in Montreal. The plane crashed on top of Sugarbush Mountain, in Vermont. Everybody was killed but Billy. So it goes. While Billy was recuperating in a hospital in Vermont, his wife died accidentally of carbon-monoxide poisoning. So it goes" (25).
ReplyDeleteThis passage really stands out to me because it really raises a question of how does Billy live with all this trauma? He has gone through so many terrible experiences in his lifetime. He almost got killed by a plane, had his wife die, fought in a war, and so much more has happened to him that has probably hurt him inside. The only thing I would suspect makes him still want to live is his friends and family surrounding him. On page 28, you can tell his daughter cares a lot about him when she was looking for him around the house, calling his name and didn't get any answer. When she finally finds him, he claims he could't hear her. She was crying the whole time looking for him. His friends from the war that he stayed in touch with also kept him going.
I think this passage also speaks to Vonnegut's opinion on war. He chooses to not go in depth about Billy's feelings about his wife's death and crash, which lets us know as readers that these things are inevitable when there is war. This is why the phrase "So it goes" is so important in this novel because it allows the story to keep on progressing forward and not drag on with Billy's feelings.
Delete“‘Don’t lie to me, Father,’ said Barbara. ‘I know perfectly well you heard me when I called’...She said he was making a laughing stock of himself and everybody associated with him” (29).
ReplyDeleteAs Billy gets older you can see the people around him giving up on him, especially after his wife dying his children are worried about him realizing that he is not the same person as he was before. In this chapter and the whole story about Tralfamadore Billy is trying to make sense of his life. He has been through so much in his lifestyle and I think this is the only way he can put all the pieces together and really comprehend if his life really did have meaning and if his choices did make a difference. I do not think his daughter sees it that way, everyone around him is calling him crazy and this just complicates his thoughts even more. This poses the question, how do you know when the choices the you make are meaningful?
I do agree that Barbara is giving up on Billy because of his new personality, but I do not think that Billy is using the Tralfamadore story to make sense of his life. I think that this story is a way for Billy to cope with the large theme of death while participating in the war. Since these aliens did not believe in death, then Billy has chosen to believe in this potentially made up world. This could be because he could be guilty of murder. Also, he could feel religiously guilty since murder is a sin in Christianity. To take it a step further, this whole scene of Billy's craziness can represent Vonnegut's feelings on war in which he tries to normalize abnormal situations.
DeleteAdding on to your analysis, I made the connection back to my quote regarding optometry and everyone either being an optometrist, married to one, or associated with one. This further proves your point that Billy's daughter could not understand him (taking into consideration that she is married to an optometrist who "corrects" people's visions) In a sense, her mindset was maybe altered with due to the fact that she has surrounded herself with optometrists. Billy's thought process is restored after the plane crashes and his present knowledge was probably gone.
Delete“Billy first came unstuck while World War Two was in progress. Billy was a chaplain’s assistant in the war. A chaplain’s assistant is customarily a figure of fun in the American Army. Billy was no exception. He was powerless to harm the enemy or to help his friends. In fact, he has no friends” (30).
ReplyDeleteThrough Vonnegut’s introduction and NPR interview, it has already been concluded that Slaughterhouse-Five is an anti-war statement. Vonnegut’s Salinger-like raw style makes very many subtle anti-war sentiments throughout the introduction and second chapter. In this passage, a statement is made by the author through the use of the oxymoron of “war” and “fun”. Firstly, the very fact that Billy is a Chaplain’s assistant, which means that he is meant to “synchronize religious support in the contemporary operating environment” (According to the US Army Job description), is ironic because he is truly not needed at all in this war already. The job is unnecessary - which connects to the statement that Vonnegut is making - which is that we often glamorize our wars by integrating cultural and religious aspects even though a war is simply a bloodbath. Though amongst some soldiers the work Billy is contributing towards may be valuable, religious practices don’t win wars - corruptible young men do. The word choice “figure of fun” highlights these points and further demonstrates the job description is meant to give the war a great image, yet the lack of usefulness the occupation holds takes away from this. In a typical war, every person on each side is contributing somehow towards guiding their side to a victory (even though war is not that black and white). As the passage describes, Billy holds literally no power in terms of saving lives, helping his country, or killing bad guys. Overall, this passage is a hidden anti-war message from vonnegut to his readers, and it will most definitely not be the last of the book.
I agree with you. Through Vonnegut's experience, he has decided to write a book that is a statement against war, and the culture it pushes onto to general population. This is evident in our society today, with all the war toys and video games, such as Call of Duty, Battlefield, and even Nerf to an extent. The children of today are brought up in a world where violence is glorified, and Vonnegut wrote this book to remind us of the death and utter terror war produces.
Delete“He was pitiful. The Three Musketeers pushed and carried and dragged the college kid all the way back to their own lines, Weary’s story went. They saved his God-damned hide for him” (42).
ReplyDeleteThroughout the chapter, Billy Pilgrim is seen as a college boy without any war experience. Weary, another young soldier, also possesses these inexperienced and even childish qualities. These qualities are the reasons for which both Billy and Weary live in their own imagination throughout the war. The fact that Billy calls the war “Weary’s story” demonstrates that Weary, along with a number of other young soldiers, are merely children in the war and are fighting their own “Children’s Crusade” (15). In addition, Billy compares himself to Jesus on the cross to demonstrate Billy’s helplessness in the war because of his lack of experience. Billy calls Jesus pitiful since his “Christ died horribly” (38). He then calls himself pitiful because he did not have an important role in the war since he bares no arms. Jesus’s helplessness on the cross relates to Billy’s actions in the war since they both do not have any physical control of their lives and need others to guide them in this stage of vulnerability.
"Little Billy was terrified, because his father had said Billy was going to learn to swim by the method of sink-or-swim. His father was going to throw Billy into the deep end, and Billy was going to damn well swim.
ReplyDeleteIt was like an execution. . . . [Billy] dimly sensed that somebody was rescuing him. Billy resented that." (43-44)
When Billy first gets unstuck from time, he experiences his birth, but then he is put into his childhood, where he first learns to swim. In this situation the quotes describes being taught by sink-or-swim method, even though he knows his father will save him, he knows his destiny is out of his hands. This scene represents pretty much everything that's wrong with Billy's life in miniature. The fact that in this war, everything that happens to Billy is out of his hands.
He has no choice about being tossed into the pool and he has no choice about being saved from it — much like he has no choice but to go fight in World War II, and he has no choice but to keep going afterwards.
This relates to the repeated phrase "So it goes." Billy knows that life goes on, even after death. He realizes that one person's death doesn't stop the unbearable amount of obstacles that will be thrown at him later on. So, he might as well accept his lack of control over life and everything else rather than mourning and reminiscing.
DeleteI also found this passage interesting because the method used to teach him how to swim speaks to the normalization of "being a man". That his father throws him into a pool in order to get him to achieve some type of manliness, shows that from day one men are expected to be brave fighters. This relates to the rest of the book, as they are expected to fight in the war and be brave men. It is out of Billy's hands whether or not this stereotype is being enforced, hence the use of the phrase "so it goes". Saying that this event was "like an execution" also relates to the passage I wrote about, which was the execution of Private Slovik. Both of these passages show the presence of male stereotypes that are harmful to young men, and to the people they interact with.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete“It was absolutely necessary that cruelty be used because Billy wouldn't do anything to save himself. Billy wanted to quit. He was cold, hungry, embarrassed, incompetent… He wished everybody would leave him alone. ‘You guys go on without me,’ he said again and again” (pg 34)
ReplyDeleteBilly was so used to being the outcast, that when someone actually wanted to see him live and succeed, he couldn't handle the pressure. Later on, Weary describes Billy as a weak, young college kid, but seems to still allow him to tag along with the “Three Musketeers. Although Billy had no will to live, for an unknown reason, Weary continuously tries to keep him alive and well. A question I had was, If Billy were to have found love and had children before the war, would he have wanted to live? Would he have tried harder to stay alive rather than moping around and getting left behind?
" He was sentenced to six months in prison. He died there of pneumonia. So it goes" (41)
ReplyDeleteThe phrase," so it goes is" is a literary technique used by Vonnegut that is an attempt to normalise horrific events that the author witnessed during the war and is now attempting to transcribe. Billy Pilgrim is telling the readers about a man named Févere who tried to distribute photographs in the gardens in the palace of Tuileries, he was sent to jail because of the contents of these photos and eventually died there. Billy and Vonnegut treat this violent and rather depressing death in a very casual manner. Billy claims to have learned this normalization of death from aliens who live on a planet called Tralfamadore, they say that when someone dies they do not really die because they live on in the past therefore eliminating the idea of death altogether, the phrase ,"so it goes" emphasizes this theory. It appears Billy's ideas of death stem from this extra terrestrial philosophy but it is a mystery of where Vonnegut's ideas originate from. It is possible that his casualness about death arises from his time in service. In the first chapter it is revealed that Vonnegut was a POW during the bombing of Dresden, and witnessed first hand the mass annihilation of 135,000 civilians. It is possible that all of this unnecessary destruction could have helped form a hardened shell around him. Since Vonnegut could not face death head on he created Billy, to do so for him. Although even Billy a fictional character is not able to fully cope with the death that takes place around him, which is why he neutralizes a devastating situation by saying, "so it goes". The point is that Billy is meant to be a coping mechanism for Vonnegut even though Billy is also not able to fully grasp the idea of death himself.
“The Tralfamadorians can look at all the different moments just the way we can look at a stretch of the Rocky Mountains, for instance. They can see how permanent all the moments are, and they can look at any moment that interests them. It is just an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one…” (27).
ReplyDeleteAlthough the Tralfamadorians seem to be a way for Billy Pilgrim to be able to except all the death that surrounds him, what they claim to believe makes some sense. Essentially he’s saying that they believe that all the moments in a person’s life, including death, are constantly existing, but are in no given order. Therefor when looking at a life death isn’t necessarily the last thing that happens. To them moments can even exist and can be happening at the same time. A moment is never gone, therefor a person is never gone. I do think Billy either suffers from serious mental issues and truly believes he has talked to these ‘Tralfamadorians”, but I also think it could be something he subconsciously made up so he could take a death much more lightly. Either way it very clearly connects to the way Vonnegut talks about death so casually in the first chapter of the book.
ReplyDeleteThe Execution of Private Slovik, By William Bradford Huie. It was a true account of the death before an American firing squad of Private Eddie D. Slovik, 36896415, the only American soldier to be shot for cowardice since the Civil War. So it goes… Which ended like this: He has directly challenged the authority of the government, and future discipline depends upon a resolute reply to this challenge. If the death penalty is ever imposed for desertion, it should be imposed in this case, not as a punitive measure nor as retribution, but to maintain that discipline upon which alone an army can succeed again the enemy. There was no recommendation for clemency in the case and none is here recommended. So it goes. (p. 45)
I was shocked when reading this passage, because I had not realized this practice was so extreme and present during this time. The fact that Vonnegut chose to add this excerpt shows that he too realized the deep impact it makes to an outsider reading this book. This passage reinforces the extremity of the war, and the control it had on soldiers. The judge involved in the case writes in this passage: “he has directly challenged the authority of the government”, showing that during this time, America was so desperate for cooperation that it was willing to root out any divergents via firing squad. They wanted to send a message that questioning their power and responsibility would end in death. This message reinforces the stereotype that men must be brave and strong, as it punishes those without the courage to serve in the army. This tells young boys that to not serve in the army not only makes you un-manly, but it makes you a threat to the nation. Vonnegut uses this passage to show the barbaric tendencies of war from both sides, and not just America’s enemy. Often, the American army is perceived to be the hero of wars, and a humane institution. This, as pointed out by Vonnegut, is impossible, because every form of war is inhumane. Billy’s passive tone towards this incident with Private Slovik shows that he thinks that is is simply a part of the system that cannot be changed. His repetition of the phrase “so it goes” in this passage highlights this mentality, showing that it is normal in a war setting to be punished for such behavior.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"Remembering this incident years later, Billy was struck by what a Tralfamadorian adventure with death that had been, to be dead and to eat at the same time" (31).
ReplyDeleteThis passage seems to sum up Billy's mental state, where he has experienced war to it's depths. Billy has witnessed a vast amount of death, where it took such a toll that he is mentally dead himself. A Tralfamadorian is portrayed to be someone who shrugs off death as a common act, thus removing a sense of emotion that seems embedded into the mindsets of people, whether it be towards the loss of a loved one or a somewhat distant stranger. The acts of war have played back the image of death time and time again, it's just a normality. The sense of death seems to become Billy himself, where he is a shell of his former self. The image of someone eating while dead, reminds me of a zombie, although they may walk with the living beings, they are truly dead.
“The third bullet was for the filthy flamingo, who stopped dead center in the road when the lethal bee buzzed past his ear. Billy stood there politely, giving the marksman another chance. It was his addled understanding of the rules of warfare that the marksman should be given another chance” (33).
ReplyDeleteGiven that Vonnegut is trying to promote anti-war with the writing of this novel, it would make sense that he would make Billy oppose the murder of a person. However, the thought process of Billy in this situation doesn’t make much sense to me. Already, Vonnegut has set up this motif of removing any meaning to violence and death, by adding the phrase “So it goes” after a passage, but in this situation it seems that BIlly is accepting death. In reality, Billy stopping in the middle of the road wouldn’t make much sense, but Vonnegut is using this to emphasize the stupidity of violence in war. With the phrase “So it goes” he discredits death and through Billy he exposes it.
“The umpire had comical news. The congregation had been theoretically spotted from the air by a theoretical enemy. They were all theoretically dead now. The theoretical corpses laughed and ate a hearty noontime meal” (31)
ReplyDeleteThe repetition of the word theoretical gives the bigger meaning of the way Kurt copes with serious issues. In many situations in the novel, Kurt seems to use a comical tone to the serious things he says. Just how he repeats “so it goes” which also seems to be a method of his, both methods show what kind of person Kurt is. Theoretical, which means an educated guess is the word he uses in this section. I think this shows that he doesn’t really believe what people tell him. I discovered this from the way he says “they were all theoretically dead now”, he says it in a type of tone that gives off that he does not really believe what he is being told. I think this also speaks to the fact that he was too young to go into war, because he still does not seem to believe anything that happened.
Read online Urdu Digests,Urdu Books,Novels,Magazines,Safarnama,Islamic Books,Education Books,imran series mazhar kaleem And Much More http://zubiweb.net
ReplyDelete