Well hello there, old friend! The blog is back. For this post, please: 1) Read Chapter 4 and choose a passage that stands out to you/intrigues you/confuses you. Type up the passage, in its entirety, and cite it.
2) Then, either:
- Ask a question and work through your confusion in a thorough response. Call on your classmates to also engage with this passage and unpack it together. OR--
- Look at specific language/literary devices/tools and write a response in which you examine the EFFECT of these devices. What do these observations that you've made DO for the novel?
Some reminders:
- Make sure that you BOTH create your own comment and also respond to a classmate's comment.
- Sign in using your full name so that your first and last name appear next to your comment.
- Make sure that you comment under your band
- Don't repeat classmates' passages. If someone has already used yours, then respond to it directly and choose another. There's plenty to discuss.
- Your comment should be at least 5-7 sentences or longer. Your reply to a classmate should be a thorough reply that pushes the conversation forward by asking follow-up questions and/or making connections to other parts of novel or other works. The use of textual evidence in a response is a great way to keep the conversation going!
- Please use appropriate grammar/punctuation. This is NOT a text message.
- Blog posts are due by 10pm the night before class. Let's get this done at a more reasonable hour, people!
"If I hadn't spent so much time studying Earthlings," said the Tralfamadorian, "I wouldn't have any idea what was meant by 'free will'. I've visited thirty-one planets inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports on one hundred more. Only on Earth is there any talk of free will."
ReplyDeleteQuestion: Because Billy Pilgrim has become unstuck in time, does he have any free will considering he can't control when he time travels? Is he now completely controlled by fate?
This section was interesting because it brought up the idea of free will vs fate, and how Billy Pilgrim and his time-traveling fit into this. While the Tralformadorians don't believe in fate at all, Billy protests, which is unusual. Throughout the novel Billy has never committed any actions that seemed to have stemmed from free will; he is passive and quiet, he enters the family business and seems to do whatever someone else wants. This could be from his time-travel, Billy no longer has the time in these different moments to try to change his life, so instead he relaxes and lets life pull him around. While this may be what Billy wants, it's therefore ironic that he asks the Tralformadorians about free will, and the necessity of it. The Tralfamadorian belief and saying "so it goes" represents fate rather then free will, the unfeeling statement seems to say one can doing nothing to change a situation, and life will go on as it will, you just have to accept it. Billy Pilgrim is doing an excellent job listening to that saying, even though his life is meaningless and dull after the war. Vonnegut is therefore warning us not to accept completely the "so it goes" statement, because he does not want us to accept fate and become too passive to want to change our lives. Instead Vonnegut wishes for us to focus on the good aspects of the "so it goes", such as in accepting death, without becoming too withdrawn from life like Billy Pilgrim.
I agree with you. I also think it was weird for Billy to mentioned "free will" because it seems as though he doesn't have any free will. He constantly time travels and can't do anything to stop it. Maybe that's why the Tralformadorians picked him? Or maybe in general they thought earth didn't have any free will because people don't know what the future holds?
DeleteOn the contrary, I don't believe the Tralfamadorians chose Billy for any specific reason. When he asks that question, they are stunned at why anyone would ask "why". They even say, "There is no why." (77). I'm not even sure what this means, but they probably didn't choose him for a specific reason.
DeleteI realize now I forgot the page number, the quote is from page 86. In response to Lucie's comment the Tralfamadorians have a very detached philosophy, in the way that nothing matters to them and everything in life flows on without reason or purpose. Therefore they would have no reason for picking Billy, because he was picked by fate and always will be. However, a character like Billy who has become unstuck in time is a likely choice as he already adopts the mindset of the Tralfamadorians. He is not concerned about any of his actions in his life, nor the consequences as he knows how everything is going to turn out. Billy through his lifestyle already adopted the "so it goes" belief system, making him fit with the Tralfamadorians well.
DeleteI agree with you and I think you make a very good point about how Billy's voice is finally heard when he protests this idea of not believing in fate by mentioning the idea of "free-will". It is interesting that he is genuinely curious as to why he was the one who was chosen by the Tralfamadorians because he even asks the question, "Why me" (76). The Tralfamadorians are surprised as to why someone like him would even ask this question because they respond,"There is no why" (77). To answer your question I think Billy is completely controlled by fate rather than free-will because he constantly time travels and he cannot stop it, and this is another reason as to why Billy believes in this "so it goes" statement passionately due to his own passive behavior, in which he cannot control.
DeleteI agree that Billy Pilgrim often times or most of the time goes with flow and lands wherever life places him. He is passive and quiet. However in the regard that he has no free will I disagree because he was the who chose to live his life in the way he did, despite the things that influenced him or triggered him to live that way of life, it was his ultimate choice and that was his free will. He chose to flow with his fate and it is not unusual for him to argue against the extraterrestrial beings because he himself knows it was his final decision.
Delete"All time is all time. It does not change. It does not lend itself to warnings or explanations. It simply is. Take it moment by moment, and you will find that we are all, as I've said before, bugs in amber."(86) This passage stood out to me the most because time is a reoccurring theme for the Tralformdaorians. The fact that time is time, there's nothing we can do abut it. Time goes on, it doesn't explain itself why. The part where the Talformdorians say "we are all bugs in amber" I interpreted that it meant, even though the bugs are dead and stuck in the amber time still goes on, and there's still moments continuing even though they're dead. We should enjoy every moment we have because time doesn't stop for anyone.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. Just to add on, however, this reminds of an earlier passage when Billy mentions how the Tralfamadorians think moments are permanent. This is interesting because as humans we are so obsessed with time that moments become temporary. The Tralfamadorians are Billy's epiphanies about life manifested jn these creatures.
DeleteI honestly do agree with you about time is time. I feel like the world isn't going to revolve around you, your pace and your time. Life goes on and so does time and people have to learn that you must continue on, even if you have made bad decisions or anything else that has happened in your life. Time doesn't stop.
Delete"Weary, in his nearly continuous delirium, told again and again of the Three Musketeers, acknowledged that he was dying, gave many messages to be delivered to his family in Pittsburgh. Above all, he wanted to be avenged,so he said again and again the name of the person who killed him. Everyone in the car learned the lesson well. 'Who killed me?" he would ask. "And everybody knew the answer, which was this: "Billy Pilgrim" (79-80).
ReplyDeleteIt intrigues me that Weary ends up dying, while Billy keeps surviving this torturous war. However, I find it even more striking how Weary blames Billy for his death, when he had a case of gangrene and considering all the differences between them. Weary is so motivated and ready for the war; he is ready to fight and bring those war stories home. He wants to be a hero, whereas Billy is ready to give up, but for some reason, it seems like Vonnegut is trying to show that perhaps Billy has some sort of higher purpose, and that's why he keeps living. Weary, however, fails at being a hero because he dies a coward. He doesn't want to own up to the fact that the war killed him because he is a human being, and human beings die from gangrene. A true hero is honest and does not blame others for his death, especially Billy Pilgrim, who despite his lack of motivation, is also trying to get through this war.
Also intrigued to Weary blaming Billy for his death, made me think about how Weary continued to save Billy's life, and how on the brink of death Billy has stayed alive. Weary made the choice to save Billy's life which now may seem as a choice that led to his own death. This may seem as an exchange of life but in the Tralfamadorian mindset, Weary is just in a bad condition because in other instances he is fine. He is fine in a moment in which he didn't choose to save Billy. Billy's reaction with a "So it goes," and his whole embodying the Tralfamadorian mindset, reveals not disinterest, but contentment with the idea he is still alive in another instance.
DeleteI agree with your analysis, it is ironic that Roland Weary, who seemed so proud and ready for war would die of gangrene, instead of slain in battle with hero's honor. His denial of how he was dying and blaming it on Billy Pilgrim instead reveals his denial to accept that he's dying, unable to accept that his visions of making it though the war weren't going to come true. Ever since the moment Rolsnd had been captured he became sniveling and weak, revealing he actually hates war. It is also a cruel twist of irony that Roland who was so passionate about war should die, while Billy who just wanted to be left alone and die continues to live.
ReplyDeleteI like your point of view on this because I was very confused as to Weary's blame of Billy for his death and this made it make a little more sense. However, I still want to pose the question of why anyone believed Weary, because it was physically impossible for Billy to kill him as they were in two different cars. It may be that they wanted to simply satisfy Weary's dying wishes, but it does make sense that he didn't want to admit his defeat, and had to find someone to put the blame on. I like how you mentioned of how he couldn't be a hero, and I think this was because he was trying too hard to be. It makes sense in his struggle to get those "war stories" that that was all he was in for, the glory, and not the hardships necessary to achieve that.
ReplyDelete"Billy now shuffled down his upstairs hallway, knowing he was about to be kidnapped by a flying saucer... He had an hour to kill before the saucer came... Billy saw the war movies backwards then forwards- and then it was time to go out into the backyard to meet the flying saucer." (72-75)
ReplyDeleteUpon reading this quote and being baffled, I came up with the explanation that because Billy was always coming unstuck in time, he remembered all the different times he visited as if it were a memory and not the present, although if the Tralfamadorians' theory of time is correct, there is not really a "present". When I thought about it, though, it didn't make sense that Billy was re-living the experience, because if time is a series of moments, then every time Billy came unstuck and went to a different moment, it should be as if he is living it for the first time. I was confused by the way he remembered being captured as he was going through the motions, yet he was still asking questions like "Why me?". In addition, he seemed to remember the routine, like how he without questioning put his hands on the electrical ladder.
Like you said, because Billy already knows everything that happens to him during his lifetime, he either lives completely in the present, or as if everything is a memory. In my opinion, Billy lives his life looking back at everything that has happened to him. This is because, when Billy travels to other moments in time, it is always narrated in the past tense. But this also makes the book very confusing to me because all though all of these events happen in the past, the way the book is written does not include any information about at what point in his life these events take place. But, at the same time that is because technically and according to Billy, they all happen at the same. So, to really understand the Slaughterhouse-five, the reader either has to piece together Billy's different memories on a timeline of his life, of they have to completely give up on that, and be in the mindset that all these events really are happening at the same time, and read the book with out trying to make sense out of it as much, a lot like Billy does.
Delete"Billy didn't want to drop from the car to the ground. He sincerely believed that he would shatter like glass. So the guards helped him down facing the train. It was such a dinky train now" (81)
ReplyDeleteI find this passage very interesting along with confusing because of when it is said that Billy "sincerely believed that he would shatter like glass". Although Billy is completely aware of what will happen to him in the future, he is still afraid of jumping off of the train car, his knowledge doesn't make him fearless. This is contradictory of many parts of the book when Billy wants to die, for example when he got shot at while crossing a narrow brick road, "Billy stood there politely, giving the marksman another chance"(33). Here, Billy doesn't at all seem afraid of his own death, he even increases his chances of dying by continuing to stand in the middle of the road. Did something change between these two times in Billy's life? Or does this other example explain more about Billy's character? On the other hand, the reason why Billy couldn't jump off of the train car could be because of his passive nature. It could be possible that Billy doesn't want to leave the train car despite his horrible experience while he was there, because he does not want to experience again this next part of his life, at this prison.
I agree with the last possibility you stated of Billy not wanting to leave because he does not want to experience this next part of his life at this prison. As we've stated many times in class, humans want to live in the moment. Even with Billy knowing what will happen next, sometimes humans are more afraid of the known than of the unknown. I think that this passage is a prime example of that belief, Billy is extremely afraid of what will happen to him as soon as he leaves the trains, that he would rather much stay there. However, as soon as he gets off the train he does state that the train is now, "dinky." Therefore, revealing that after he took his first step, he realizes how insignificant that little train had to do with his fate. As the Tralfamadorians state, life is not a linear timeline, everything that will ever happen to you has already happened.
DeleteThe incident at the road crossing illustrates that Billy Pilgrim is testing out free will because he knows that he was not shot and never will be shot. This is a message of passivity and pessimism that even though man can act with free will he is destined to repeat the mistakes of history. There will always be new wars and more killing despite man's inclination to abhor these horrible acts.
DeleteI strongly agree with both of your points. It makes a lot of sense that even though Billy knows what will happen to him in the future, he could still be afraid of it happening and not want to experience it again. I also think it is possible that there is still a part of Billy that wants to change his future even though he cannot. He could hope that if he does continue to stand in the middle of the road or if he doesn't jump off the train car, something will change and he will no longer have to live in this cycle of events that he already knows will happen.
Delete“Billy answered. There was a drunk on the other end. Billy could almost smell his breath—mustard gas and roses. It was a wrong number. Billy hung up. There was a soft drink bottle on the windowsill Its label boasted that it contained no nourishment whatsoever.” (73)
ReplyDeleteIn chapter one, Kurt Vonnegut, presents himself as drunk who would attempt to call his old girlfriends late at night after his wife has gone to bed and how after, he would talk to his dog who didn’t mind the smell of mustard gas and roses. Vonnegut again refers to the smell of “mustard gas and roses” in chapter four when Billy walks into his daughter’s empty room the night after her marriage and picks up a phone to “a drunk on the other end” whose breath smelled like “mustard gas and roses.” In this novel Kurt Vonnegut tells his story through Billy Pilgrim who has experienced multiple horrific encounters, including the death of his wife, being captured in war, to the extent of even being kidnapped by extraterrestrial beings whom he calls the Tralfamadorians. So far in the novel Vonnegut uses the imagery of the scent of mustard gas and roses, two unusual scents put together to help describe his traumatizing experiences not only in war but in his personal life as well. Thus, the odd combination of mustard gas, a symbol of war and death, and roses, a symbol of romance and love, highlights how deeply his experiences on the battlefield has negatively affected Vonnegut’s personal life.
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ReplyDeleteIf I hadn’t spent so much time studying Earthlings,” said the Tralfamadorian, “I wouldn’t have any idea what was meant by ‘free will.’ I’ve visited thirty-one inhabited planets in the universe, and I have studied reports on one hundred more. Only on Earth is there any talk of free will.”
ReplyDeleteThis quote from a passage explains the nature of time. The Tralfamadorians reveal that they have a different view of the universe and lack the possibility of free will. The alien who talks to Billy is has encountered humans describing and having their free will. He maintains that humans, alone among all being in the universe, believe in the illusion of free will. His emphasis on the idea of “studying” humans and inhabitants of other planets makes humans seem as if they're crazy because earth is the only planet who talks about free-will. In a way I believe he starts to think of alien life as abnormal.
This quote is very interesting and does reveal the Tralfamadorian understanding of free will. What strikes me is that Tralfamadorians can understand the concept of free will but not that of time? Also, this shows that Tralfamadorians are studying other life forms and not just themselves and Earthlings. This also reveals development in Billy's perspectives of normal and abnormal.
Delete"The formation flew backwards over a German city that was in flames...The bombers opened their bomb bay doors exerted a miraculous magnetism which shrunk the fires, gathered them into cylindrical steel containers, and lifted the containers into the bellies of the plane" (74)
ReplyDeleteWe already know that Billy Pilgrim could play clips of his life at random times, but what is astounding about this passage is his ability to replay the clips backwards. How is this possible? Vonnegut is telling us that he would love to replay history backwards to a time before all the wars and atrocities. Perhaps this would change the course of history. We see this theme in the chapter again when he imagines Hitler as a baby and maybe if his mother took better care of him and would have bathed him, Hitler would not have become the monster he became. Unlike the belief of the Tralformadorians that time is unchangeable, Billy has an ability to replay events and feels that maybe he could have changed the outcome by historical events backwards, but the reality is "so it goes”, you have to go with the flow. This is Kurt Vonnegut's childish wish to change history, to reboot or restart events, so that people would not kill others and there would be everlasting peace.
I agree with what you're arguing, but I wouldn't call this wish "childish." It is very difficult to accept the fact that life happens and we can't do anything about it. Billy introduces this idea here as a a new way of thinking that might actually work. If things went differently at the start, they'd have different outcomes. We don't know if it's better or worse, but we can hope for the best. Billy needs to think like this because there are some things in life that no one can control, and that's upsetting. After saying all of this, perhaps it is childish, but think of a time when you never asked "what if?"
Delete“Overhead he heard the cry of what might have been a melodious owl, but it wasn’t a melodious owl. It was a flying saucer from Tralfamadore, navigating in both space and time, therefore seeming to Billy Pilgrim to have come from nowhere all at once. Somewhere a big dog barked” (75).
ReplyDeleteAlthough not as straightforward as other times, we have the symbol of vision sort of reappearing in this passage. The owl, is a creature who is well-known for its amazing vision. Therefore, although it was comparing the sound of the flying saucer to an owl, it seems that the comparison could be further made to connect the amazing sight that both the owl and the Tralfamadorians have. With the Tralfamadorians being able to see in four-dimensions and knowing everything that is ever going to happen in someone else’s life, it is sort of opposite of how a man in war views life. For the soldier, who can only see in three-dimension, has his life on the line, and is far away from the people he loves, it is most likely very difficult to think of ever getting out of the war. The soldier only thinks of then and now, and not necessarily about what the future may hold for him, because he is not certain that there will even be a future. They are so focus on winning the war, they do not care for anything else and are always alert. However, the protagonist Billy juxtaposes this belief of a soldier because he does not really care for fighting in war. Since he has the truth of the Tralfamadorians, he no longer worries about making choices, since he knows that everything has already happened, and he exists on all time. Billy, unlike other war soldiers such as Roland, is able to see everything so clearly. Now, that may be because he is an Optometrist or may be because the Tralfamadorians have blessed him with knowledge.
Yes, I never thought of this this way! I love how you connected the owls/tralfamadorians to soldiers/Billy. Its amazing how owls can turn their heads I think to about 270 degrees, and the tralfamadorians can see four-dimensions. You can argue that this is a representation of how they both can see whats behind them and in front of them (similar to the future and past and knowing that they exist at the same time). I agree that soldiers can't necessarily see the future because they don't know if they will survive, and Billy used to not be able to know if he would make it out of war until he experienced time-traveling. It opened his eyes to see the world in different views.
DeleteOddly enough, in reading the chosen quote, I found myself zeroing in on the big dog barking in the final sentence. Vonnegut has made serous references to dogs and their barks throughout the novel so far, with no apparent purpose. There repetition of the "I liked the dog, and the dog liked me," from both Vonnegut and Billy Pilgrim's point of view subtly showed the toll of the horrors of war on soldiers, the longing for simplicity and need for companionship from something other than a human with the capability of destruction. The appearance of Princess, the borrowed German Shepherd, on the surface appeared to be saying the bark is worse than the bite, but deeper down appeared to be exposing the vulnerabilities, weaknesses, and just plain hurting of both sides despite the loud declarations of war and vicious threats. The faraway bark of a dog here might just be a normalizing detail; dogs bark at mailmen, squirrels, oh and Tralfamadorian flying saucers while mere humans aren't even aware of them (or the risk they pose).
DeleteIn response to your interpretation of the quote, I loved your connection to the symbol of vision (and how owls have great eye-sight), but I had difficulty with its relation to Billy Pilgrim as a soldier. From what you said, I got the idea that Billy Pilgrim's glances into the future and past (like Tralfamadorians, although not quite) were what causes his passivity on the battlefield. If that is what you meant, I totally agree and find it extremely interesting! The effect of his being "unstuck in time," the horrors of the war and the trauma of the plane crash are not really quite obvious in the novel, as Billy Pilgrim has spent a large portion of his life hiding a balancing act of misfortune.
"The American fliers turned in their uniforms, became high school kids. And Hitler turned into a baby, Billy Pilgrim supposed. That wasn't in the movie. Billy was extrapolating. Everybody turned into a baby, and all humanity, without exception, conspired biologically to produce two perfect people named Adam and Eve, he supposed" (75).
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me because it connects back to what Kurt Vonnegut and Mary O' Hare said about how war is fought by a bunch of babies. By explaining the war movie backwards, we get a sense of how our society is structured. Then, by adding the theme of religion, Vonnegut makes us question where we went wrong. He specifically chooses to say that Adam and Eve are the "two perfect couple" that created humanity. He also says how "everybody turned into a baby" to symbolize their innocence and harmlessness. He even mentions that Hitler was once an innocent baby! So where does it all go wrong? When children are brainwashed by the romanticized perception of war. For example, the movie is about American bombers and "the gallant men who flew them" (74). Men who are killing hundreds and causing tremendous destruction are viewed as brave and noble. With the need to feel important and heroic, these high school kids become obsessed with war and begin to lose their innocence as they head toward a detrimental path. Vonnegut is trying to tell us that we can go back in time to being peaceful and "perfect" if we do not get influenced by glory of war, but rather, focus on the massacres and murders it causes.
I completely agree with you. I like how Vonnegut chooses to say "And Hitler turned into a baby...That wasn't in the movie" because he wants his readers to know that war isn't heroic and that murdering other people takes away our humanity. Society and the media portrays war as a brave and a heroic honor to be a part of, but Vonnegut helps us understand that war is not something to love and to appreciate. Killing humans not only destroys the humanity of the person killing the other human, but it destroys the society by creating murder acceptable and even honorable.
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ReplyDelete"Billy Pilgrim padded downstairs on his blue and ivory feet. He went into the kitchen, where the moonlight called his attention to a half bottle of champagne on the kitchen table, all that was left from the reception in the tent. Somebody had stoppered it again. 'Drink me,' it seemed to say." (73)
ReplyDeleteThe use of personification on the bottle of champagne shows how much alcohol as taken over Billy's life. He uses it to deal with his problems like, in this moment, when his daughter has left the house after getting married. The only way he knows how to deal with his sadness is by drinking. He can't ignore his drinking habit since now he's imaging it calling to him. "Drink me" is very important because it reveals Billy's habit getting worse and soon it could reach the point where drinking is all he does.
Yea I totally agree with you. This also shows the qualities that he shares with Vonnegut, remembering that Vonnegut was an alcoholic and how he uses very little details that he shared with us about him in chapter one, to incorporate in his character to share his life story.
DeleteI agree, and also think that he is willingly trying to force himself into a place of bliss by drowning his emotions and issues with alcohol. Instead of calmly trying to sort out his issues he confides in beings of another universe, which clearly, tends to put people off. I think that he Billy is in a way forcing himself to be an alcoholic, because it is something that he knows he will have in common with others. Unlike most other times when he is an outsider.
DeleteI agree that the use of personification for the bottle of champagne represents how important drinking is to billy, but I do not see it as a representation of the ascension into a larger drinking problem. I believe that this use of personification is a representation of how important drinking is and has been to billy. I also believe that "Billy's habit getting worse and worse" is non existent as he has no conception of time and therefore, cannot progressively drink more as he leaps to scenario's where drinking is not available. To him; alcohol has been a symbol of escape that has appeared over and over again as he leaps from time to time.
Delete" 'Any questions' Billy licked his lips, thought for a while, inquired at last: 'Why me?' 'That is a very Earthling question to ask Mr Pilgrim. Why you? Why us for that matter? Why anything? Because this moment simply is–there is no why' "(77)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote very intriguing because this is a side of Billy that we are not quite familiar with. For example, Billy is usually seen as the passive, careless and low-key type of guy who just wants to get by, but as i read this passage it seemed to me very sorry for himself and wanting answers. This was not a "so it goes" moment for him, it was a "why me" moment. It felt as if he genuinely wanted to know why it was that he was chosen as if he could have made a difference. He was asking as if there would be answers that could get him out of the situation that he was in because at that moment he did not seem like he wanted to just get in the saucer without knowing a thing.
I agree because in the past few chapters, he has tried to be left behind by the others soldiers and tried to stay out of the war. Also, before if he was not satisfied by something, he would just leave it or not question about it but in this chapter, it seems that he wants to stand up for himself and get answers from these Tralfamadorian, who kidnap him to time travel. Maybe Billy is tired from being captured by the Tralfamadorians and go through his rough past just so that the Tralfamadorians could get more human data. He is questioning himself why him, why not someone else, like Roland Weary who is confident in himself.
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ReplyDelete"All time is all time. It does not change. It does not lend itself to warnings or explanations. It simply is. Take it moment by moment, and you will find that we are all, as I've said before, bugs in amber.
ReplyDelete'You sound to me as though you don't believe in free will,' said Billy Pilgrim."
Billy Pilgrim is undeniably a likable protagonist, possibly because of (rather than in spite of) what makes him an unlikely soldier. He is polite, slightly pathetic and completely and utterly passive, making him seem like a mere victim to the trails of time. Thrown from one moment to the next, sometimes skipping months or even decades, his present (amid World War I, as the audience reads it) feels like a story from someone else's past and his future (as a middle-aged man, married with grown children, as the audience reads it) feels like a fantasized escape from the war that surrounds him in his present. His life is not progressing linearly. Yet, every moment, no matter when or where in time or space, is his reality; resisting it or trying to change it, the Tralfamadorians attempt to explain, is futile (giving way to his docile nature). Their superior ability to see in 4-D, such that all of time coexists in their line of vision like the Rocky Mountains exist in ours, causes them to view time as both flexible (unorganized, lacking sequence, without warning or explanation) and rigid (incapable of being altered). They establish that the future is set and in doing so, imply their belief in fate. Their rather fatalistic view essentially denies the existence of free will, agency, and (especially for Billy Pilgrim) control; and stuns Billy Pilgrim into vocalizing his doubts. The expression of thought adds complexity to Billy Pilgrim's rather flat, unopinionated and therefore compliant character.
“On the eighth day, the forty-year-old hobo said to Billy, 'This ain’t bad. I can be comfortable anywhere.’ ‘You can?’ said Billy. On the ninth day, the hobo died. So it goes. His last words were, ‘You think this is bad? This ain’t bad.’"
ReplyDeleteThe hobo is older than most of the men on the train and he is wiser. All the men are complaining that they are hungry, cold, and tired, but the hobo is very optimistic and tells them there have been worse situations. It is very ironic because they are about to be put into death camps and stripped naked, so they are in a very horrible condition. I like how Vonnegut chooses to put Billy’s reply as “You can?” because Billy is the least optimistic person in this novel and he is almost comparing the hobo to Billy by contrasting them. Later on page 81, Vonnegut says about the hobo, "Billy was the next-to-last human being to reach the door. The hobo was last. The hobo could not flow, could not plop. He wasn't liquid anymore. He was stone. So it goes." Vonnegut contrasts life and death to liquid and stone. It seems as though Billy doesn't want to leave the hobo because he was his source of positivity, but he also says "so it goes" just like when everyone dies because death is a part of life.
I agree with your analysis, Vicky, and I would also like to add how it is ironic that the hobo is the optimistic one and Billy is the pessimist. You would think that Billy, the guy who has survived death numerous times would value his life more and more each time. And you would think that the hobo, who does not have a lot of things in his life, would not value his life as much. Yet, it is the opposite, and it is the hobo who dies. I think Vonnegut is saying war only causes destruction and it doesn't matter whether someone is optimistic or pessimistic during it. War is not like karma and it does not believe that thinking positive will make positive things happen. Wars kill anyone it can find and it is not easy to avoid death during a war.
DeleteOn the ninth day, the forty-year old hobo said to Billy, “This ain’t bad. I can be comfortable anywhere.”
ReplyDelete“You can?” said Billy.
On the ninth day, the hobo died. So it goes. His last words were, “You think this is bad? This ain’t bad.” (79)
Question: Why does Vonnegut choose to add the hobo in the novel? Should/how does this affect Billy?
Being that this is a war novel, I think that the hobo was put into the play to show the hardships of life during the war, especially when you are a prisoner. Unable to sleep because the other prisoners don’t like how he kicks/screams etc. in his sleep, even though he can’t control it, is a terrible experience for Billy. It can be argued that Billy is passive in this moment because he could have stood up for himself and slept, despite what the other men said. But being that Billy can really careless about war and being in this is situation, he chooses to let it go. The hobo intervenes (and sort of agrees, in a sense) that this situation is not the worse that it can get. He’s been through worse, and he knows that life is worse out there somewhere. On the same note, Vonnegut in chapter one describes himself as a humanist, and you can argue that he sees the “light” out of every situation. Vonnegut, through the hobo, tries to see the light out of bad situations, such as these. However, Vonnegut is not glorifying war and saying that there’s always a “light” in the situation (being that this is an anti-war novel). Instead, I think that he is just trying to show Billy that there are worse things out there, and he has to utilize this moment, in order to move on with things in the future.
"It would take another Earthling to explain it to you. Earthlings are the great explainers, explaining why this event is structured as it is, telling how other events may be achieved or avoided. I am a Tralfamadorian, seeing all time as you might see a stretch of the Rocky Mountains. All time is all time. It does not change. It does not lend itself to warnings or explanations. It simply is. Take it moment by moment, and you will find that we are all, as I've said before, bugs in amber." (108-109)
ReplyDeleteQuestion: If life is predetermined for everybody, according to the Tralfamadorians at least, why do Earthlings feel this instinct to explain everything?
There is a quote in the chapter before this that says, "Among the things Billy Pilgrim could not change were the past, the present, and the future" (77). This quote sounds as though he's come to terms with it, but I think the idea bothers him. I don't actually think that Billy would accept the idea that he couldn't control being in the Dresden POW camp or not. He would want to get out of there in any way he could. If everything were set in stone for everyone, than no one would have the ambition to do anything.
I feel the question should be "what is the Traflamordians meaning of life, if everything is pre-determined?" I think it's a inevitable human characteristic to want to be able to explain everything and have a reason for things happening. All of us "Earthlings" have a natural curiosity, from birth. So it 's not strange that us humans have this instinct. Billy Pilgrim, in my opinion is just very pessimistic about everything. So it is not strange to me that he is so negative about what he has power over and we can't put to much trust in him because of this factor. Also, Billy Pilgrim hates responsibility, so in case, something happens he wouldn't be blamed.
Delete"I am a Tralfamadorian seeing all time as you might see a stretch of the Rocky Mountains. All time is all time. Its does not change.It does no lend itself to warnings or explanations.It simply is. Take it moment by moment and you will find that we are all, as I’ve said before , bugs in amber...only on earth is there any talk of free will” (86).
ReplyDeleteThis passage really intrigued me because we as the readers really try to emphasize with the Trafalmadorian's perspective on time as opposed to Billy. When the Tralfamadorian says, "All time is time. It does not change. It does no lend itself to warning or explanations . It simply is" The Tralfamadorian is bringing up the concept of time is constantly moving and it is something that humans referred to as "Earthlings" do have control over these situations because "it simply is". The Tralfamadorian says later "Take it moment by moment and you will find that we are all, as I've before, bugs in amber", I know this going to sound off topic but this part reminds me of the song "Feel this moment" by Pitbull and Christina Aguilera. Pitbull says this line in the song, "Lets stop time and enjoy this moment", which reminds of "we are all bugs in amber" because even though the bugs are dead, but we are still forced to enjoy this moment because time continues to move on without us, and we have to be appreciate it of the moments now due to the fact that once it is gone it is gone forever.
"The guards peeked inside Billy's car owlishly, cooed calmingly. They had never dealt with Americans before, but they surely understood this general sort of freight. They knew that it was essentially a liquid which could be introduced to flow slowly toward cooing and light." (102)
ReplyDeleteThe guards this far have been described as harsh and straightforward whenever they deal with Americans, but here they appear more gentle and caring. The adjectives used to describe them are similar to birds: "owlishly" and "cooed". This makes them seem timid, fragile and gentle, and not about to harm the Americans in any way. This description of the guards illustrates the different types of people and abolishes generalizations of war. It shows that not all guards are mean and against the "other side", it reinforces that most people fighting this war are "babies" and they can connect with each other on that level. The Americans here are portrayed as gentle and weak from the attrocities of war. They are referred to as a "liquid", again showing that war often reduces people to commodities. Liquid is also not sturdy or solid like you would expect Americans to have, it moves around without a really clear goal. Vonnegut says that they flow slowly towards light, like when you hear of people who have almost died being drawn to the light. This is Vonnegut subtly hinting that war destroys soldiers, they are half-dead when war ends and in Billy's case even want to die fully after war.
“The minerals were then shipped to specialists in remote areas. It was their business to put them into the ground, to hide them cleverly, so they would never hurt anybody ever again.” (75)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote very interesting because the way the specialists thought about the war was similar to the way Billy thought about war. They both did not want to go to war and certainly kill other people. The specialists hiding the minerals symbolize the fear and innocence that people have when they go to war. And it is also interesting how Billy is using his imagination to go back through time and experiencing other perspectives of the war besides being a soldier, when he could just time travel with the Tralfamadorian. The way Billy acts and thinks about World War 2 in this scene is very different from his past self, who stayed quiet and tried to get out of bad situations by either leaving himself or leaving others to move on.
" Why me?" That is a very earthling question of you to ask , Mr. Pilgrim. Why you? Why us for that matter? Why anything?" (76/77)
ReplyDeleteAlthough , this quote is relatively early in this chapter this one quote ties together and shows Billy's outlook on the Tralfamadorian philosophy and time traveling. Already have experienced this day , it seems Billy , does not want to go back in time. Why? Because he is a earthling , and that is apart of the earthling philosophy. He asks , why me , which adds curiosity to the plot because at one point he seemed to be interested in how different they were from people and now had a strong disliking for how time plays a part in his life. Missing events , and being absent from your life for ample years and taken to a place that only you have discovered can change someone's whole lifestyle and demeanor. Which seems to often happen to Billy , as well as affect his relationships with his kids and his "normal lifestyle" once he returns to earth.
" Billy was the next-to-last being to the door. Next to the hobo." (102)
ReplyDeleteI was intrigued by this quote. I was drawn in by the labeling of beings. Vonnegut seems to be illuminating Billy's view of himself. He thinks of himself very lowly, yet he is also in a way separate from the rest of society, and usually dislocates himself from other being purposefully because he does not like human interaction. So I found it very interesting that Vonnegut decided to show Billy's perspective in this scenario. I also found it interesting that in such an intense situation Billy is only thinking about his position in relation to others, not his safety.
"Billy blacked out as he walked through gate after gate. He came to what he thought might be a building on Tralfamadore. It was shrilly lit and lined with white tiles. It was on Earth, though. It was a delousing station through which all new prisoners had to pass. Billy did as he was told, took off his clothes. That was the first thing they told him to do on Tralfamadore, too." (83)
ReplyDeleteParallels are created between the time on Tralfamadore and being captured by Germans. These ideas, of two separate experiences, are intertwined because its these thoughts of the Tralfamadorians and Tralfamadore are what he gets out of the war. Connecting to a future passage about how the Tralfamadorans know nothing about free will shows Bolly's true feelings about the war. The experiences and questions he asks about why he was chosen by the Tralfamadorians can be one similar, why is he being drafted to the war. The experiences with the Tralfamadorians can be one of the Tralfamadorian's path that is being developed. With the war, Billy doesn't question it, neither does he question his son being part of it, but taking in the Tralfamadorian mindset, and making different decisions, Billy's experiences with Tralfamadore is just that. Tralfamadorians have been traveling to different universes and planets and studying, but only it is on Earth were free will is a concept, thus why Billy doesn't question the things that occur to him, now being enlightened with the ridiculous idea, bringing him to only say, "So it goes."
"Everybody turned into a baby, and all humanity, without exception, conspired biologically to produce two perfect people named Adam and Eve, he supposed." Pg. 75
ReplyDeleteThis passage stood out to me for two reasons. For one, this passage was right after when Vonnegut mentioned the war movie; as the subtitle for this book is "The Children's Crusade" it is very interesting how Vonnegut subtly includes how innocent and ignorant people, like babies, are fighting a ruthless and meaningless war. This also stood out to me for the biblical reference. Vonnegut mentions once again, Adam and Eve. This did confuse me a little because how can supposed 'babies' produce Adam and Eve? And how were non-perfect beings who have been killing each other 'create' perfection? He even references Hitler to being that innocent/ ignorant baby; how can even he produce 'perfection'? What was Vonnegut trying to say?
This is a quietly astounding comment on the nature of people. We feel as if we are victim or we are chosen. Natrually, our whole landscape, the way we look at life and everything is centered around us. However, that view couldn't be more false, we are beings of a moment. The result of something as unbalanced and delicate as time. We talked about the aliens in a sense being a coping mechanism for Billy but I'm also curoious about the repurcoauscions of dealing with these aliens and how that manifests as well. The mindset they preach though is probably really helpful for him in dealing with his eratic jumping through time. The idea that a moment simply is is espically interesting for Billy due to the fact that for him almost no moment simply is. I think the idea is that even for Billy, someone being torn apart by a million moments its all a result of the moment that is. It all creates the present moment.
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