1) For this blog post, you can respond to the text in any way you would like. Choose a line, and explain why it stood out to you. You can make a connection, ask a question, or notice literary tools and ponder the ways that Vonnegut achieves meaning.
Please make sure that your passage is significant and reflects some BIG
ideas that struck you. REMEMBER: DO NOT REPEAT PASSAGES OR IDEAS FROM YOUR CLASSMATES.
2) Don't forget to respond to someone else's post! Answer their questions, or pose a question of your own! Use textual evidence.
Try some of these sentence starters:
"I wonder why..."
"I'm surprised that..."
"I don't understand..."
"I was struck by..."
"It's interesting that..."
"I'm bothered that..."
"The central issue here seems to be..."
"And then they saw bearded Billy Pilgrim in his blue toga and silver shoes, with his hand in a muff. He looked at least sixty years old. Next to Billy was little Paul Lazzaro with his broken arm. He was fizzing with rabies. Next to Lazzaro was the poor old high school teacher Edgar Derby, mournfully pregnant with patriotism and middle age and imaginary wisdom. And so on." (150)
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting that Vonnegut repeatedly calls Edgar a "poor old man" throughout the story. However, Vonnegut seems to transcend this idea that that pain is merely a moment in time that isn't constantly experienced. If this is true, then why should Edgar be referred to as a "poor old man" constantly. Vonnegut also tends to refer to his death constantly throughout the book. But when Vonnegut refers to Billy's death he says, "So Billy experiences death for a while. It is simply violet light and hum. There isn;t anybody else there. Not even Billy Pilgrim is there." (143) His casual tone towards Billy's death rather then his empathetic tone towards Edgar's death is quite interesting. I wonder why Vonnegut differentiates the two. Is it maybe because Edgar is a more meaningful character?
I think Edgar is called the "poor old man" because he lives in a life of lies. For example, Edgar does not know as much as Billy does. Billy knows that death is only a bad moment and that life is full with many other good moments to focus on. Edgar doesn't know this and he is forced to think that after death that is all there is.
DeleteI disagree with Abby. I think it is at a small rate of disrespect for edgar because of the way Vonnegut chooses to degrade him. As a character he is not weak in any way but the author chooses to make him seem that way. If anything Billy is weaker out of the two. I also disagree that Billy has more insight by agreeing with the Tralfamadorians because all they are doing is avoiding death. Its not a positive thing to always believe in happiness, there are bad things in life that Billy must learn to face.
Delete“I, Billy Pilgrim, the tape begins, will die, have died, and always will die on February thirteenth, 1976”
ReplyDeleteI’m surprised that Billy says this with such a calm voice. Or maybe it is not a calm voice because maybe before, he has studied his death that makes him calm that it will happen. Billy lives slaved to his free will. He cannot do anything or accomplish anything. He lives knowing what will happen next that makes him not have any free will. Even when he proposed to Valencia he didn’t know why he did it, he just did it. I feel that Billy is like the Tralfmadores. And I think that the reason why tralfamadores do not have a free will is because they know what will happen and they are forced to know it. Unlike tralfmadores humans live moment by moment and their actions is what determines the next. Billy accepts the fact that he is going to die and he certainly does die because of Lazaroo’s promise to avenge Weary’s death. It is surprising that BIlly chose to live knowing that Lazaroo was going to take away his life and that he didn't do anything about it.
I agree with some of what you said about free will and the Tralfamadorians. When I read your post, I realized that maybe Billy Pilgrim is able to say the day he dies so calmly because he knows he has to accept it, and he has. I find this similar to when the Tralfamadorians and Billy were talking about the end of the world. The Tralfamadorians were saying that there is a day the world ends, there always will be and they have to accept that. Billy had a hard time accepting that because he wanted to know that there was hope, it was preventable. After the Tralfamadorians explained that it couldn't be changed Billy started to accept that the inevitable would happen, including his own death. If he has accepted that his own death will happen then, he doesn't have any reason to be nervous or be scared. He knows, now, that nothing can change that. Why fight it?
DeleteI felt the same way when you said Billy says the line when a calm voice. To me the tone is the first thing I notice in a passage and a tone says a lot about the character and the line. But I don't think his experience or view of death has anything to do with the tone he uses in this line. I think Billy has a choice and he made his choice to be slaved by his free will and not accomplish anything, which makes me feel like he's just lazy and he doesn't want to do anything to help or save himself because he just see's life pointless. So, he basically see's no point in trying.
DeleteI don't think that Billy's voice was supposed to be completely calm here, but I think the focus was more on the fact that he has accepted his death. Whether or not he is afraid of it, he acknowledges the fact that it is going to happen at a specific point in time. I think this is just him being very Tralfamadorian, and not particularly showing the emotion he attaches with events, but simply the events themselves.
DeleteI feel like Billy chose to live knowing that Lazaroo would eventually kill him because he is basically a Tralfamadorian. He know's what was what is and what will be and this has sucked away his fear of what comes next. That's why he's so calm about his death because he knows that it will happen and that it is only a part of life rather then the end of it. The illusion that death is such a terrible thing is the main source of human stress, however Tralfamadorians seem to have overcome that fear.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Barak, I believe that Billy's encounter with the Trafalmadorians altered his perspective on life and how he feels about death, his past, his future and his path. I think that Billy adopted alot of the Trafalmadorians' mindsets and this is why he is not so frightened towards the general idea of death, and in this case, his own death. Billy was taught by the Trafalmadorians to live by "so it goes" therefore death does not and would not phase him.
Delete"They saw the dead hobo again. He was frozen stiff in the weeds beside the track. He was in fetal position trying even in death to nestle like a spoon with others... Somebody had taken his boots. His bare feet were blue and ivory. It was alright, somehow, his being dead. So it goes."
ReplyDeleteI was quite bothered by this part of the chapter. First, I didn't understand why it was okay for this hobo to be dead. I think what he might mean by this is that his suffering is over but he never seems to care about death ever anyway. The phrase "so it goes" is almost dismissive but hopeful. We know that he believes that all humans live in another moment but its almost a way to avoid the death. The other really important part is that he's still there and people have almost raided him. His boots are gone and it upsets me that people had taken advantage and stll left him to die in the weeds. Its almost unimportant during this time if someone with such "worthlessness" dies. I found this interesting.
I think the quote you picked here Lindsay is a great representative of the war and the mind state that the war generals were in at that time. War is not about the citizens of the towns and the businesses supporting their families, it's about superiority over your neighbors in the form of patriotism. I appreciate how Kurt Vonnegut writes out such a graphic story, and so fervently as well.
ReplyDelete"People f**k with me," Lazarro said, "and Jesus Christ are they ever f**king sorry. I laugh like hell. I don't care if it's a guy or a dame. If the President of the United States f**ked around with me, I'd fix him good. You should have seen what I did to a dog one time." (138 - 139)
ReplyDeleteLazarro goes on to explain the story of the slaughtering of the dog. A dog bit Lazarro, and to get revenge on the dog, Lazarro took the "sharp as a razor blade" spring out of a clock, cut a steak into pieces as well as the spring from the clock, and put the spring pieces into the steak pieces to get revenge. I almost feel bad for Billy Pilgrim and Edgar Derby, who were the victims of the threat made by Lazarro. I feel what is being represented in these two pages of the book is the relentlessness people having during time of war. Those involved do not care about the civilians, they certainly do not care about who they are at war with, they just care about winning. The quote preceding the dog death paragraph, in my opinion, sums up war perfectly: "Anybody ever asks you what the sweetest thing in life is---" said Lazarro, "it's revenge."
Wow that's such an interesting point Klajdi. I hadn't really thought about that before but I completely agree. I think that in some ways Lazarro is absolutely a metaphor for how war makes people cold and sort of heartless. I personally found this scene to be very creepy and kind of revolting to be honest. The fact that Lazarro felt absolutely no remorse when killing this poor dog is quite disturbing. That being said, I think it does present a very good example of how war hardens people because they have to kill others, whether they want to or not. When in battle, I think eventually one must just shut off their emotions and learn not to feel anymore. Because going through a war feeling so much every time one kills would be just too painful.
Delete"The surgeon spoke english, and he said to Billy, "I take it you find war a very comical thing" (151).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it discusses the overall issue of who and what Billy Pilgrim represents in the story. I think this also stood out to me because in previous chapters Billy is also referenced as comical. I honestly think that it was chance that Billy was wearing such a comical outfit but at the same time, I believe as a character part of his purpose is to be a bit funny, strange. His presence of not being so serious and depressed gives his dialogue a different tone. I also believe that in war, such a sad, serious and struggling time for both sides there needs to be something comical, something to take people away from the pain, an escape. I believe that Vonnegut is saying that through his use of Billy Pilgrim. Frequently, not only in this quote, or this chapter, Billy is pointed out as "making fun of the war." I do not think he is, rather he is adding comical tone to the war, with his outfit and dialogue. I think that this choice by Vonnegut illustrates to the reader that Billy isn't necessarily a joke, or ever making fun of the war, but when there is pain everywhere it doesn't hurt to have someone be funny every once in a while.
Though I do agree with your point about his presence influencing his dialogue and that his purpose is to be strange, I disagree that Vonnegut uses Billy for comic relief amidst all the pain of War. Rather, I think that Vonnegut is pointing out that Billy is so oblivious to the pain and suffering all around him, that he is confused that people think him comical when he wears such strange clothing. For instance, the surgeon thinks Billy is a psychopath who thinks war is "a very comical thing", while Billy cannot understand why he is always so out of place. I think Vonnegut uses Billy and his blindness to the present as comedic relief, not as an escape from the pain and suffering of war, but to make the point that war is misunderstood by everyone.
Delete"And then they saw bearded Billy Pilgrim in his blue yoga and silver shoes...next to Billy was little Paul Lazarro...he was fizzing with rabbies. Next to Lazzarro was the poor old high school teacher Edgar Derby mournfully pregnat with patrioism...
ReplyDeletethe eight ridiculous dresdeners ascertained that these hundred ridiculous creatures really were american fighting men fresh from the front. they smile and then they laughed, their terror evaporated. here were more crippled human beings, more fools like themselves"(150.)
Through this quote I believe that Vonnegut is trying to exentuate the fact that there are no great heroic mighty soldiers in war. Even a huge and feared country such as America has normal, innocent civilian victims fighting their battles. The description of Billy's outfit is described as a preposterous comical costume,and shows just how vulnerable and young he is. None of the American soldiers are described or viewed as "Frank Sinatra," they are just as vulnerable and worn out as the rest of the soldiers are. There is no justification in the way in which innocent people such as the high school teacher Derby or normal civilian Lazarro or young Billy are thrown into such tumultuous and extremely violent events. This quote exemplifies the gritty but realistic side of war, where the idea of fighting for a belief gets blurred and mixed around to become unreasonable and as Vonnegut would say "nonsensical"murderous sprees of people-regardless of their nation or what they represent.
I agree with this idea and this really shows how people during war change. Because they go from being normal citizens to soldiers.
Delete"Anybody ever asks you what the sweetest thing in life is--" said Lazzaro,"it's revenge."
ReplyDeleteIn this quote Vonnegut really shows you what war does to people. He shows that when people are in a war they do anything for revenge because they don't care about anybody anymore they only care about winning but when they leave they still got the same mindset so as Lazzaro said "Anybody that touches me, he better kill me, or I'm gonna have him killed. So in war its either your tougher then him or you die.
“What the Englishmen said about survival was this: ‘ if you stop taking pride in your appearance you will very soon die.’” (145)
ReplyDeleteOver the course of this book, I was stuck by this ongoing idea of identity and confronting your identity. If you stop remembering who you are, you can’t be loyal to your identity, thus your identity dies. Although in this case you will die because you lose the purpose of living, you have nothing to fight for, because you don’t even know who you are nor does anyone else. If you are honest about who you are, and you recognize what makes you, yourself, one is able to face reality and conquer it. Billy Pilgrim bounces back and fourth from the future to the past, he survives all of these traumatic events because he never forgets who he is.
My quote is very close to yours, Gaby. I never really decided to look at it this way, and its a very interesting path to take for explanation. I suggest that Billy's past takes a more negative note. I think the time travel is more of a haunting experience than one of identity. He goes back in time whenever something bad happens, so its kind of a run-away tactic.
Delete" So Billy experiences death for a while. It is simply violet light and a hum. There isn't anybody else there. Not even Billy Pilgrim is there". ( 143)
ReplyDeleteWhen reading this line I found it very hard to understand how some one can describe death and not even be there. But then again I think back to when the Tralfamadorians explained how death is just a moment. Could this be a moment of time for Billy?. Even though the book states what Billy is experiencing in that moment I felt like it had no emotion. All I could imagine while reading this line is Billy just literally standing there doing and feeling nothing. It makes me feel like he's not even afraid of death even when he's in it because of the tone of this line. Normal people would be so scared of death because it's simply the subject of the unknown. But Billy makes it sounds like he knows death, he makes it sound like he's been through death before. He makes death sound like nothing!
I agree with you Pamela. When reading that passage, I felt the same way of how Billy had such a neutral tone and prepared to die. I think the Tralfamadorians had strip away Bill's human fear of the unknown. I also feel that they would be proud of him, since he knows that even though he is dead in that moment, he is alive another. However, I think the Billy of the past (the one time travelling during the war) is sort of mad and afraid because the Tralfamadorians took away the ambiguity of death, as well as his free will. But then again maybe it's all in Billy's head.
DeleteI don't entirely agree, i think this is Vonnegut indicates that death is just a state where nothing happens, because everything stops. Perhaps, you're right that this is a moment that will pass where he will be alive again since the Tralfamadorians can experience different stages of time in there lives. I think that Billy doesn't fear death nor does he find it approachable,i think he's been numbed to the point and has seen so much death in his life, that he wants to believe death is just an empty void where nothing happens.
DeleteI feel like maybe if I was a little clear I would connect with both you guys, but Valerie I agree that maybe it was all in Billy's head, but I still don't think Billy from the past would be mad at all, I think he'll just stay the same actually. And Gabby I disagree, I think death od definitely something more than just a state, some must happen, or then what will be the point of death?
Delete"He was told not to find out what the lumps were. He was advised to be content with knowing that they could work miracles for him, provided he did not insist on learning their nature," (pg.137).
ReplyDeleteQ: Who is advising Billy and why are the lumps significant?
A: Prior to this passage, Billy mentions animal magnetism several times. After looking up the definition, I found it means " the power to attract others through one's physical presence." So, Billy feels someone's presence but turns out it was his coat. Perhaps the morphine is still affecting him, but he investigates further and finds lumps. He speaks of these "radiations" that tell him to not question the lumps anymore. Therefore, I contemplate , if these "radiations" were sent by the omniscient presence he felt before? Could it be the Tralfamadorians? Did they lead him to the jacket? Moreover, it states, "to be content knowing that they could work miracles for him," I found this odd since Billy is smack in the middle of a war, and in fact a prisoner. Having faith in miracles among war can be difficult, yet Billy accepts it easily. This passage can also foreshadow something good will come out of the bad? Furthermore, later on in the chapter , Billy uses one of the lumps to get out of a situation, however the question remains, what is the horse-shoe lump for?
I was thinking the exact same thing when I read this passage. It was somewhat confusing to me because I felt that it wasn't the Tralfamadorians because he would've said it if it was them. This led me to think that there are other people in Billy's mind but they are not brought up to the reader. He has based this story on the Tralfamadorians and the voices don't seem as important to him. This also makes me question if Billy is more insane then we presume. Billy could have loads of voices in his head that we don't even know about. This is complete speculation but it leads to some very interesting thoughts relating to Billy's psyche.
Delete"The Englishman got up on the stage, and he rapped on the arm of a throne with a swagger stick, called, 'Lads, lads, lads-can I have your attention, please?' "(145)
ReplyDeleteWhy does Vonnegut juxtapose the Englishmen with the American "lads"? What does this show about how the war was perceived?
Again Vonnegut uses an ongoing theme to catch our attention and reveal something to the reader. I find it interesting that the Englishmen in the prison are perfect: they are healthy, in good spirits and the guards love them. On the other hand, the Americans are weak, ill, and everyone thinks they are children who need teaching. The Englishman "rapped on the throne with a swagger stick" like a teacher getting his class in order for a lesson. He needs to teach the American "Lads" something.
Essentially, Vonnegut is arguing that America sent children to war. Children who needed still to be taught and treated like schoolchildren. Also, Vonnegut always refers to the british soldiers as Englishmen (emphasis on 'men') because they are strong and clean like real men, like the American soldiers are perceived to be. In the publics eye, the Americans were supposed to be strong and mighty- a force for good- not a sorry excuse for a soldier. The Englishmen represent what America wanted the war to be like- pretty, clean cut, musical- and the Americans represent what the war was actually like- sickening, horrendous, and fought by unprepared schoolchildren.
I also noticed this juxtaposition while reading that speaks to the different "characters" in war. Some strong and avid fighters, some week children, some innocent, and some seeking revenge and death. These people represent more than just soldiers, they represent ware viewpoints. To show this, Vonnegut also uses Edgar Derby and Lazzaro. When he speaks of Derby has says he "was often writing letters to his home in his head, telling his wife that he was alive and well". When Lazzaro is discussed, he is described as "talking to himself about the people he was going to kill after the war..."(183). These descriptions come right after one another in the novel showing that these characters contradict each other showing how the idea of war and the real war also contradict each other.
Delete“It is time for you to go home to your wives and children, and it is time for me to be dead for a little while-and then live again” (143)
ReplyDeleteWhat struck me most about this quote was Vonnegut’s, once again, very nonchalant approach to such an important event. And even more so, Billy’s careless take on his own death. This quote sparked a possibly far-fetched idea in my head. I think it is possible that Billy was in fact so emotionally scarred from his time in the war that he created the Tralfamadorians and their all time is all time philosophy in his delusional state. The reason I have this theory is because it would make sense that Billy tried to find a way to make all the deaths he had seen and/or caused during his time in battle less painful. By adopting the all time is all time theory, Billy is able to dismiss the deaths of many, including all the people that died in the plane crash he survived, by believing that the moment they died was just a bad moment for them but that they are alive in another moment. I think this is an example of Billy trying to shut of his emotions in his post-war insanity.
I agree that we should continue to keep the possibility of Billy being delusional in our heads as we read. When we first started reading, I think it was everyone's initial reaction that Billy is just crazy and is making things up. By now, though, I think we have gotten into the story enough that I, personally, completely forgot that any of this could not be real. I really agree with you in that the all time is all time way of thinking is a way to avoid the deaths that he has experienced. Nobody else travels with him through time and to and from space to verify that it is all real, and I think it is important to remember that he is extremely scarred by his experiences. He was admitted to an insane asylum. There are tons of signs of mental illness in Billy, so I think that this may all be a mechanism for him to deal with his pain.
DeleteMIKA YOU ARE A FREAKING GENIUS! I obviously agree with you. I didn't really think of the whole "alien" thing as a protection mechanism. I thought he used it more as a way to make fun of human nature. They way he presents the Tralfamadorian philosophy makes me feel stupid, useless, and weak because I cannot and have not been viewing the world that way. Anyway, now that you mention it, I feel like he uses the Tralfamadorian philosophy as a way to make sense of what he has seen and what has happened to him. I believe that he is way too comfortable with a bunch of aliens that keep him captive in a zoo. He uses this new "all time is all time" philosophy to help him "look on the bright side". When someone dies, he just "So it goes"'s it and moves on. But in the end, as we discussed in class, he will never be able to run away from what has happened. If he is right, that "all time is all time", then we can easily say that all the bad things are happening and will always be happening. But my question to you is this, do you feel that this form of self preservation helping or harming him? Why?... Use analogies and quotes to argue your point.
Delete"Anyone ever asks you what the sweetest thing in life is-" said Lazzaro, "it's revenge."
ReplyDeleteHow can revenge affect us positively and negatively?
We all have different personalities and view emotions in different ways. Revenge is one of those spitting images that is created through hate and anger. Something that won't be controlled if we don't get rid of it early. Lazzaro is a perfect example. He says on pg 141, " He died on the account of this silly cocksucker shot after the war. So I promised him I'd have this silly cocksucker shot after the war." The pain of losing a loved one and then knowing exactly who's fault it is, that's an ignition for revenge. As horrible as revenge is, it brings out everyone's work ethic and how much they care for someone or to honor themselves. Revenge can bring out the worst however as well as the best in ourselves.
“He was advised to be content with knowing that they could work miracles for him, provided he did not insist on learning their nature. That was all right with Billy Pilgrim. He was grateful. He was glad”(175)
ReplyDeleteI think that one of Vonnegut’s main arguments is spoken through this passage. He is saying that people/earthlings often think, question, and argue too much. I think Vonnegut feels that everyone needs to accept what they are given and find ways to be content with that. Here, Vonnegut explains that being content can be as powerful as performing “miracles”. If people insist on figuring out why something happens, or learning everything about the subject, there is no mystery, beauty, and joy. It causes stress and makes a society that revolves around knowledge, fact and sorrow, rather than curiosity, surprise and gladness. Since Billy has the Tralfamadorian understanding, he is more inclined to feel content with what he is given because he knows he is unable to change it. But even without this ideology, people should be able to feel “grateful, glad and content” with the element of surprise and lack of solid proof because it can prove to be very rewarding.
"I threw him the steak... 'You got the right idea now. Tear your own guts out, boy. That's me in there with all those knives.'" So it goes." (139).
ReplyDeleteThis whole paragraph stood out to me a lot at first or its morbidity, and then for its 'So it goes' at the end. I never fail to be surprised by the 'So it goes's. But at this one in particular, I realized that they are placed after any mention of death. I sort of freaked out when I realized it. We had spoken in class about 'so it goes', and had said that it was a symbol of the Trafamadorian beliefs about time. Yet bringing it directly to death makes a lot more sense for me. I kept thinking about how the Tramfamadorians think it is useless to cry at funerals, because the person isn't dead at other times. Billy feels the need to say 'So it goes' in relation to death in order to comfort himself into believing the Tramfamadorians. I don't really know where I am going with this anymore but I think there's a lot here.
"'They ceased to stand up straight, then ceased to shave or wash, then ceased to get out of bed, then ceased to talk, then died.... it is evidently a very easy and painless way to go.' So it goes" (145).
ReplyDeleteI have noticed that when something comes before "so it goes," it is something cruel or inhumane. I think this statement is supposed to soften the blow of whatever he's describing. Like maybe whatever happens isn't uncommon. He also used this statement when describing candles made out of human body parts earlier in the book. Anyway, i believe that the passage is a connection to his living situation on Tralfamadore. Like he's making a sub-concious wake up call to himself to go and do something unlike most human beings. These actions are, of course, for the entertainment of the aliens, but I think Billy is trying to tell himself something. Like, if he doesn't do something interesting, he will die without being content. Why (maybe) does Billy feel this way?
I noticed that too! Everytime he uses So it goes, the passage mentions death in it. I think this relates to both his Tralfamadorian view of life, that no one really ever dies, and the effects war has had on him making death seem like such an unimportant event. It that sense it is interesting that he choses to make Tralfamadore have a lot of similarities with both Germany and World War II, because even in Billy's own mind, he can never fully escape the awful memories and images of war.
Delete"Billy Pilgrim was Cinderella, and Cinderella was Billy Pilgrim." 185
ReplyDeleteI chose this line because I found it extremely ironic and little funny and his use of paradox brought up a lot of questions in my mind. In many ways Cinderella and Billy are very different, Billy has been suddenly shipped off to war and thrown into the middle of it, whereas Cinderella is a poor servant, who in the end marrys a prince and "lives happily ever after". As I thought about this more I began to wonder if they were so different, yes Billy is thrown into war, but he survives which is almost his version of a Prince. I think this paradox sheds light on the fact that often after traumatic events, especially death and war, human beings often question what truly matters in life and that it changes your values. Billy is not being whisked away to live in a castle, but he is given his life. Yet, after he has experienced is comrades die, does he even want to have this life? I think this also relates back to the question of Why me? and I'm getting off topic but I'm left wondering How has war affected Billy's perception of the world and does he resent or embrace the fact that he is still alive?
I was going to write about this line too! I reread the line, puzzled by this ironic paradox. Billy Pilgrim is not exactly someone with an (eventually) enchanted life that young girls aspire to be. However, I thought that the two weren't really so different. Both characters begin their lives with struggle and after finding a suitable spouse, become wealthy and satisfied. I agree with your idea that war has been so cruel to Billy that simply coming out of it alive is a happy ending. To answer your final question, I think Billy's constant near death experiences and dying comrades have given him an indifferent feel towards life, but he certainly doesn't resent the fact that he is living. He has come close to death so many times that he no longer tries to prevent it, and has seen so many people die (as well as people close to him, people leading strong lives that one would never expect to be hit by death) that he accepts the fact that he can die at any moment and that he, as well as anyone surrounding him, should not feel a great deal of emotion towards death.
Delete"The Americans were taken to the fifth building inside the gate. It was a one-story cement-block cube with sliding doors in front and back. It had been built as a shelter for pigs about to be butchered. Now it was going to serve as a home away from home for one hundred American prisoners of war" (152).
ReplyDeleteWhy did Vonnegut use this specific passage to name the entire book? What deep significance does this have?
Immediately when I read this, I understood why the book was called Slaughterhouse Five (obviously). This passage otherwise would not have really stood out to me as much as it did if the book hadn't been named after it, so I think it deserves some analysis. There are a lot of authors that name an entire book off one small passage in the book, but that passage encapsulates the entire meaning of the novel or book in a metaphor. For example, in To Kill a Mockingbird, Atticus Finch briefly mentions why it is wrong to kill a mockingbird, but that one moment represents the meaning of the story. The same thing goes with The Catcher in the Rye. I think that here, Vonnegut is trying to make a point that war is basically like a slaughterhouse. It is where men go unwillingly to die, just to feed someone's greed. Just like pigs go to be killed to feed people literally, Vonnegut is saying that war only exists because people are hungry for world power, and war is the only way to achieve that. Vonnegut once again is reiterating that he thinks that war is completely horrible, by the comparison of that to a slaughterhouse, something that is agreed by most to be bad. I think also the number five is important because he is saying "oh it's just another slaughterhouse, just another war", which again makes us realize how absurd that is. Also, prisoners in World War II were numbered like animals, when those people had lives and had families. War is so common and soldiers are such a disposable commodity that they are just identified by numbers, which Vonnegut thinks is bad.
"'They ceased to stand up straight, then ceased to shave or wash, then ceased to get out of bed, then ceased to talk, then died.... it is evidently a very easy and painless way to go.' So it goes" (145).
ReplyDelete"There at the corner, in the front rank of pedestrians, was a surgeon who had been operating all day. He was a civilian, but his posture was military. He had served in two world wars. The sight of Billy offended him, especially after he learned from the guards that Billy was an American. It seemed to him that Billy was in abominable taste, supposed that Billy had gone to a lot of silly trouble to costume himself just so.
The surgeon spoke English, and he said to Billy, "I take it you find war a very comical thing" (151).
I connected these two quotes. When I read the first one, I thought about how Vonnegut made that one's will. When you lose the will to live, you just stop living. You can either fight or give up. I found that it was interesting how Vonnegut used "appearance". Billy has been told to have a, not so well kept, appearance. So how could he have found the will to survive? I also like that quote because i feel like that man wanted to refer to appearance because I feel like what he really wanted to say was "if you're going to die, why not die looking good?" I feel like Billy has no self-worth at times, but since self-worth is something that helps people want to live, how did he survive? When the surgeon sees him, he sees something funny in Billy. It was as if Billy's appearance was making fun of war and soldiers. The surgeon was offended at the fact that Billy could disrespect the war the way he did. This quote connects with the other one because it show that something was wrong with Billy's appearance in order for people to be so shocked that he survived. It intensifies the need to answer the question "Why Billy?"
I was actually going to post with the same quote but why not comment instead? I'm very sorry to say that I disagree with your ideas of this passage. In using this I was going to include the paragraph right after your quote when Vonnegut refers to the cause of this strange event as "Fate." I believed that this capitalization of the word, "Fate," was used to imply this as a proper noun. A noun that as the Tralfamdorians say just, IS. Vonnegut almost personifies the word and I wonder why he does this, maybe to give him closure that no matter what, everything ends and is the same. As for your views on the quote above, I don't believe that Vonnegut thought "why not die looking good?" but instead wanted to describe how unfortunate needs of apparel or as he says, "fate," can create misunderstandings. There is often the misconception for some people that war isn't real, they believe it to be a myth. With this misconception, those who really are involved in the world often become extremely offended or frustrated with this belief of myth. Just a thought, not necessarily true.
Delete"At the time of his death, he says, he is in Chicago..." (141).
ReplyDeleteDuring the most of the description of Billy's death, before almost every event, Vonnegut ensures that the reader is aware that this is what Billy believes what happened, not really what Vonnegut believes happened. This gives me sense of skepticism, leading me to question the legitimacy of most of the events. I don't completely understand why this is done, but whenever an out of the ordinary event occurs, Vonnegut sort of detaches himself from these events. This even pushes the reader away from the story, as we are given a point of view that Vonnegut himself does not fully trust. This reminds me of page 142, when Billy tells the audience not to be concerned over the fact that he will soon die. Am I too, supposed to ignore Billy's supposed assassination and read on without questioning the situation? The two lines are similar in that they are distancing the reader from the story, almost telling the reader to read over the story with a lack of knowledge and emotion. When Vonnegut states "Billy says..." to tell the reader that not all the events may be true and that they are told from Billy's distorted view, I was confused but accepted the statement and read on to see if something later on in the page would answer questions or give me a stronger sense of reality. Same with Billy's death. Billy says to avoid protest and sad emotions over his death, and although I am confused at what is happening, I read on and listen to Billy, mainly because I don't know much else other than Billy's side of things. However, I don't know why this is done- why the abstract way of telling events, why I am so distanced from reality in the story. Is it to reflect Tralfamadorian concepts? To relate back to the bigger theme of the affects of war?
"He was in a fetal position, trying even in death to nestle like a spoon with others. There were no others now. He was nestling with thin air and cinders. Somebody had taken his boots.. His bare feet were blue and ivory. It was all right, somehow, his being dead. So it goes" (148).
ReplyDeleteI was very intrigued by Vonnegut's constant repetition of "blue and ivory" feet. He describes the dead homeless man on the street and uses it to describe Billy as well. Vonnegut constantly writes using Billy's perspective on death and life and being. He describes Billy as being totally okay with his death because of the fact that the minute he dies, he will travel back in time to life again, experiencing his life in a constant loop. It constantly makes me wonder the reality of life and its worth. What happens after death? Who remains? What remains? Is all existent or nonexistent after my life? This will always be a questioned unanswered in life and maybe not even death. And even if in death, I doubt the ability to reveal this secret will be possible. I think that his use of this phrase, "blue and ivory" constantly referring to feet" is used to show this possibility or show that death is inevitable, life goes on, people move on, people forget, and life recycles. In a way life is a cycles, constantly improving. I as long with many others constantly fear this inevitability because it remains unknown. I wrote about the fear that is caused by lack of knowledge in my short story essay and I find that this cause and effect is constantly reoccurring in both literature and reality. What a true mystery the afterlife is.
"You lads are leaving this afternoon for Dresden--a beautiful city" (146).
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't Vonnegut write any commentary from Billy during this speech from the Englishman?
I feel that Billy is one to always commentate on what is being said. He usually hears something said then talks about how he knows what will happen ahead of time. In this passage he seemed to refrain from talking about how dresden is gonna be bombed and destroyed. He just listens. I personally find this to be out of the ordinary for Billy, who loves to show his knowledge of the future and explain to the reader what actually happens. I think Vonnegut decides he doesn't wanna give this moment away to the reader. Vonnegut decides to foreshadow the moment instead of letting Billy explain the end before the reader gets there.