1. Choose a line, and then analyze
the passage in a reader response in which you explain why this
portion stood out to you. Try to make sense of it. Did it raise
questions? Did it confuse you? What part of the language stood out to
you? Why did Atwood choose to describe the passage in the way that she
did-- how do her literary choices lead to meaning?  |
Bush Decides Upon "Handmaid's Tale Look" for Women in Photo Op; http://www.edrants.com/reluctant/000633.html |
Friday, February 1, 2013
F-BAND: HANDMAID'S TALE (191-211)
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"Better never means better for everyone, he says. It always means worse for some." (pg. 211)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote to be really interesting. The general is asking Offred what her opinion of the new society is. It confuses me who has it better and worse, the men or the women. Seeing as the women are forced into servitude, it cant be much worse for men. However, based on Offred's comments, she makes it seem like men have it harder. On the meaning of the quote, i believe its part of the human condition that is unavoidable. Say the rich get taxed to help the lower and middle class sustain their lifestyle, why should they sacrifice their hard earned money because someone else couldnt make as much as them? There is no way around it, anything that is supposedly for the "Greater Good" will always have a negative effect that somebody can't always see.
Jack, I really like your real world connection. I defiantly agree with what your saying. I guess other's work for the well-being of other's and visa versa. For anyone to disagree, if you see a wrong doing or finagling would you chose to say something? Knowing that your actions could be a threat to you life? I don't think many would, so for Offred and all the people of Gilead there siituation may not get better any time soon.
DeleteKeosha Mondesir~
"You might even provide a Heaven for them. We need You for that. Hell we can make for ourselves."
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me as I was reading it, even though its pretty straight forward. She's comparing or stating that the world is Hell on Earth for everyone and how possible and easy it became this way. Around this quote she's praying to God, trying to get a grip on her life. But it's not very easy as she begs God for any kind of reply. At this moment she reflects back as if she still feels the same way she did before. She can not do anything her self and she knows this..
Keosha Mondesir~
I agree completley. I also think what she might be saying is that it is so much easier for people to create a Hell, than it is for people to create a Heaven. I think Offred may even view her current situation now as a Hell on Earth. I also feel a sense of sarcasm from her tone. I cannot really tell if she believes in God or if she hates all religion, due to the society that it created. She may be asking God for a favor, if it would be possible for him to make a heaven, and forget about the hell, as humans have that covered already.
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ReplyDelete“That’s one of the things they do. They force you to kill, within yourself.” (193)
ReplyDeleteThis quote conveys that the dystopia causes a loss of morality in society. The “killing within yourself” represents people losing their identities to become who the new society wants them to be. There is always a punishment if someone does not conform to “society”, therefore they must all obey the law. It’s sad that everyone has to lose who they are. There is no more personality and emotion to the Republic of Gilead. Everything is so bland; it makes me wonder: What is the meaning of life for these people, if there is one? Universally, is it easy to lose who you are? Or does the loss of identity gradually happen over time, without knowing it yourself? This quote seems to be the essence of the story. Everyone is constantly being watched. And with every passing moment, their identities are being killed.
I think that Offred often touches on that same question. What is the meaning of life for her and the rest of the handmaids? We talked about a quote in class where Offred mentions life being "bearable". But what defines life being bearable? You're right the thought of these girls going day by day trying not to go insane is grim. You're also right when you say this world seems bland, why would the people in power want society to be like this? What do they gain? I completely agree that the women in this story are having their identities stripped away from them, however I don't think it is them doing to themselves. I think that whoever is in charge is purposefully taking away anything that is personal to them, or allows people to connect to them.
DeleteXingduo, I totally agree with everything you have said. By this quote, Offred means that she basically had to change and had to "kill herself" because that's what she was forced to do. She had to kill herself within. I agree with your last statement, "with every passing moment, their identities are being killed" they all are gradually loosing their identities, more specifically their personalities. Offred does not even remember some of the stuff from her old life, gradually she's forgetting everything and accepting her new oppressive life. I also wonder the same question as you "What is the meaning of life for these people, if there is one?". Are they just living life to get it over with? OR are they actually content with what is going on around them? This goes for everyone, the Martha's, the Commander, the Handmaid's and the Housewives. Are they happy with how they're living their lives or would the rather be dead?
Delete"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. This is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before. You do that first, in your head, and then you make it real. So that's how they do it, I thought. I seemed never to have known that before." (193)
ReplyDeleteI think that this quote is interesting because it touches on the idea that women have lost their true identities in this society, they have become the "it". It is much more easier for the people in charge (who are the people in charge? men? men and women? just women?) to force the handmaids to live like this. By renaming all women by whichever male is in charge of them at that time, it creates an emotional barrier. You can't connect to someone who doesn't have a name. Not to mention that they're forced to wear heavy red cloaks that cover their entire bodies, this makes it hard to see them both physically and emotionally. Is this Atwood's way of commenting on that? I think that the segment "You do that first, in your head..." is key. It really shows Atwood (and Offred) agree that people have pre-determined stereotypes in their heads even if they don't know it.
Woah, I completely took this quote differently. I see you took the feminist route in a way and brought it back to the book that is very interesting. I was thinking about the basic idea of murder, and what detaching one's self from a being says about the state of humanity. Are human good or bad? I wrote my response about the same quote and I think you would find it interesting to see my take on it.
Delete"I'll take care of it, Luke said. And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before." P. 193
ReplyDeleteThis quote reminded me a lot of what the Commander was saying about his past mistresses: If your dog dies, get a new one. Although he has been rather kind to Offred, he still has to remain from feeling empathy for her, regarding her as nothing more than something to keep hiim company. What Luke did to the cat is very similar. He had to refrain from calling it "her", and insread calling it "it." By doing this, he is creating a lifeless object, therefore making her easier to kill. If the Commander does the same with Offred, it will make it a lot easier once she must leave him, for whatever reason. He will just replace her with another handmiad, much like he did with his past "misstress" who hung herself.
I think you make a very interesting but factual comparison between the Commander and Luke. I feel like this quote was meant to show us that both Offred and the Commander do not actually have true feeling for each other, nor do they want them. The relationship between Offred and the Commander being compared to Luke and the cat's relationship is Margaret Attwood trying to convey a point. The point is that both the relationships were not real, and they are easy to end/replace, which is exactly what Luke did with the cat. Also, it is easy for the Commander to replace Offred and her life could go downhill if she cannot have a child.
Delete“You might even provide a Heaven for them. We need You for that. Hell we can make for ourselves” (195).
ReplyDeleteI found this quote really interesting because it shows how Offred feels about her society and her life. I think the “we” is Offred and her entire society of Republic of Gilead. She feels that the society she lives in is hell that they all created; Offred has no rights and does not have freedom as well. Additionally, she thinks that that’s the only thing they’re capable of making, which is why she says, “We need You for that”. Offred is praying that the people who have died get provided with heaven because she’s aware that the life they lived in Earth was hell. What really stood out to me about this quote was, “Hell we can make for ourselves” because it shows that she thinks that her society is hell and she’s being brutally punished, and it vividly shows how unhappy Offred is. We see this in our world now, people are creating hell on Earth, and for instance, all the wars are an example of hell. The world we live in is full of corruption and inhumane acts done to each other by one another. I think Atwood is trying to say that as well, which is why she created a society that reflects hell.
I totally agree with some of your points. I think that offred's questioning of "god" is very important. She yearns for something better, but conforms to he current conditions. Although she dreams of her past, she prays for her future "to be pregnant". I like the fact that this quote also makes us think of the Gilead society as "hell".
Delete"We could even have a fight about that, about unimportant, important. What a luxury it would be. Not that we did it much. Theses days I script whole fights, in my head, and the reconciliations." (200)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote very interesting because Offred is realizing that her life now is not normal. Throughout the book I noticed that whenever Offred would speak about Gilead, she would contradict herself and find something good to say about it. In the past couple of chapters Offred has been becoming fed up with the system of Gilead. When Offred says sometimes she scripts out fights, is her trying to find a way to relive a normal life. I think the fights are the things she wants to remember because she cannot have fights with the commander or anyone else in fear of getting in trouble. I also think when she days important and unimportant, she is referring to the fact that there is no important or unimportant to her anymore.
I agree with this analysis, that Offred has become to be more fed up and sick with Gilead. She used to always find the good in the bad, however, now she has been becoming stronger and more interested with getting treated better. Remembering fights also helps her feel like she has a stance and a voice in the problem. As she gets closer to the commander, will her voice in the matter grow?
Delete"I wish I knew what You were up to. But whatever it is, help me to get through it, please. Though maybe it's not Your doing; I don't believe for an instant that what's going on out there is what You meant."(194).
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book Offred has been complaining and talking about how the world has been totally overpowered and ruined by this new society. In this quote Offred is praying/talking to God and is assuring him that everything that has happened is surely none of his fault. I thought God is supposed to be the "Almighty" and whatnot, meaning that he makes things happen and can stop them whenever he wants. In the beginning of the quote Offred wishes she knew what God was up to, as if the creation of this dystopic society was a pathway to something positive. I think she's doing this because He is possibly her only hope to get out of the situation; so she feels like she has to excuse him from possibly being the reason she is in the most miserable she has ever been.
I agree; Offred has to excuse God because He is her only hope now. However, I think that deep down, she knows He is nonexistent because otherwise, why would He put her through this miserable time? Offred’s faith has left her, though she is still trying to hold on to it. Oftentimes, in desperate situations, people force themselves to believe in things they know are not true. Your quote reminds me of Offred trying to believe in a message from Luke that would never come: “It’s this message, which may never arrive, that keeps me alive. I believe in the message” (106). I guess it’s good for Offred to believe in this message, and to believe that God is not responsible for the dystopia. Sometimes it feels better to pretend to believe in something because it’s easier to handle than the truth.
Delete"That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before. You do that first, in your head, and then you make it real. So that's how they do it, I though. I seemed never to have known that before" (193).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to my because I've always thought about how one can bring themselves to do an act as terrible and as wrong as murder. I think the way Margaret Atwood puts it is quite simple, but makes a lot of sense. What she means is one must detach themselves from the being they are about to kill. They have to rid their relationship from them in order to take their life away. Now, what does this say about people in general? People have consciences, and I truly believe that we know murder is wrong. Louis C.K made that joke about how if there was no law against it people would do it all the time. It was funny, however I disagree. If you take Margaret Atwood's idea that one's mindset when in the act of murder is complete detachment (unless you're completely insane), then it almost provides a loophole for sane people. Or maybe people naturally don't know it is bad, because when you are detached from the being you are completely by yourself, thus purely human. But at the same time humanity naturally communicates and creates society which creates these rules, so are people naturally good? Is good and bad even real? Is Margaret Atwood even right about murder? I don't expect anyone in our class to actually know the answer to the last question.
You raise some interesting questions, Teddy. I'm not sure why you spend your time thinking about murder, but whatever I'm not judging. I think it is absolutely necessary to detach ones self from an individual if you are about to kill, however I don't think that insane people are barred from this. Maybe the only difference between sane and insane (in this sense of murder) is that those who are sane understand that they must detach, while those who we considere 'insane' are actually just at the purest form of their human animalistic needs and are therefore naturally able to detach themselves without giving it much thought. I agree with what you said about how society is created by humans, but at the same time aren't we created by society as well? It's like the chicken and the egg theory, we will never really know which one came first.
Delete"You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, is what he says. We thought we could do better"(211).
ReplyDeleteThe Commander believes that the Gilead has redeemed men's passion, and that it has allowed them to "feel again". Not realizing the consequences of the selfish needs of the men, the commander says later that better means worse for some. We as Americans always witness patriachal societies in other countries, and we all complain. We complain that men don't get enough attention, that women should dress more formal, and so on, but change may not always be great. I think this is what the Commander is saying. He's saying that change benefits the one's who need it the most. If we change now in the 21st century we won't only change what we need to change, we'll also change what we dont need to. The Commander says that the Gilead gives men something to work toward. He says that in the Pre-Gilead it was to easy to become intimate with another, and men had nothing to look forward. Clearly, the Commander only cares for mens needs, and only making life "bearable" for women. I also find it significant that this quote refers to an egg again. Why are "eggs" so important to the novel? What do you think it means to Offred in comparison to the Commander?
"One and one and one and one doesn't equal four. Each one remains unique, there is no way of joining them together." pg. 192
ReplyDeleteThis line stands out to me because of the way Offred understands the Commander's idea. I think it relates to their current situation and the society that they are in. Just because many people are suffering and are being forced to do things against their will, does not mean that they all suddenly have something in common. You cannot lump people together just because it is easy, you have to be aware of the fact that they are all still complex individuals who are representing a compilation of emotions and experiences. No two people are alike, so even if you replace one with another in your mind you will always end up back where you started. There is no replacement for a human, no magical way to make one like another, and there is nothing you can do to change that.
Although I agree that in most cases, under normal circumstances, pretty much everyone is different and no two people are the same, I think there are ways to make people become "lumped together". Of the Handmaids, we can see that there are those like Moira, who refuse to accept the customs of the Aunts, and make attempts to escape. Then there are those like Offred and Ofglen, who seem to remain different on the inside, but assimilate on the outside, just to avoid punishment. However, I think there are some handmaids who, as Ofglen tells Offred, are "true believers". The fact that she has a name for these types of people alone suggests that they exist. These people, I think, are the ones who can be made into copies of one another. Perhaps these people have submitted themselves to accept whatever values they are taught as their own because they have lost all hope of escape or change, and see any retaliation as useless. To them, it becomes logical to abandon any sense of the person they used to be, and allow themselves to fit into the mold the Aunts give them.
Delete"And because he said it instead of her, I knew he meant kill. That is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before. You do that first, in your head, and then you make it real." Page 193
ReplyDeleteThis quote reminded me immediately of the passages about "endearing" qualities Offred could imagine about the Nazi officer or someone like the commander. The ability to give someone a humanity, to sympathize with them, is countered by the ability to completely strip someone of their humanity. This is demonstrated with the cat--although not literally having a "humanity" as it is an animal, the cat must have been of significance to both Luke and Offred, as they expressed worry about leaving it behind. Luke had to make the cat an "it" to make it an object with no feelings, no reason to be upset about being killed. Then, he would be able to lessen the guilt on his own back, justifying his actions, because of the new-found insignificance and neutrality of the cat, an "it". This passage made me wonder if Offred is capable of the same things. I am still confused by parts of Atwood's language, like where she says "you have to create an it, where none was before." I feel like she might be saying that there was a sense of caring for the cat before, so Luke's disregard for the cat's life would be what wasn't there before, but I am not sure.
I think that what Atwood meant by creating an "it" was that Luke was forcing himself to objectify the cat. Yes, I think that he had to lose a degree of sentimentality regarding the animal, but more importantly I think it is about turning the cat into a thing rather than a creature who may or may not have feelings itself. I think this creating an "it" carries over to the newer society of Gilead and its opinion on the treatment of women: have the patriarchs of this society chosen to objectify women completely in order to live with themselves? And if so, why is the Commander now treating Offred as an equal (or, if not an equal, a slightly lesser companion)? These are all important things to ponder.
Delete“You can’t make an omelet without breaking eggs… Better never means better for everyone, he says. It always means worse, for someone.” pg 211
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because it showed the reason for the creation of Gilead: helping men “feel” again. However, is society better because men can now feel? The Commander asks Offred what she thinks about the new changes, this seemed to be a little bit of an insult to me. Although life might have been made better for men, life for women is only “bearable”, and they seem to lack all sense of feeling now. This makes me think of society today, there are the rich and the poor, everyone can’t be rich or else our society would fall apart. Even the Super Bowl, there can only be one winner, each team has to do what ever it takes to win, although it might not seem fair to have two teams work so hard the entire season and only have one win, it must happen. This makes me wonder if women were living the life while men were repressed in society before Gilead. Finally I liked that eggs were once again brought into the book, however, instead of examining the beauty of an egg and its shell, they must be broken in order to make something better.
"One and one and one and one doesn't equal four. Each one remains unique, there is no way of joining them together." 192
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me for many reasons. The first one being that i had to re-read it a few times to really understand its meaning, and then read the surrounding text to get a larger meaning. I was still left with questions after analyzation. I found this to mean, that even though people may be in the same situation, or doing the same thing, they will always maintain their true qualities. Similar to the situation that all the girls in the story are in-all of them must act a certain way, do the same things, dress the same way, and are used for the sam tasks yet still are the same people they were before they joined this society. No matter what higher authorities do to them, they will remain unique whether on the inside or the outside. This reminded me of how the commander is trying to replace his old mistress who killed herself with Offred.
This connects back to the discussion we had in class, and how we spoke about the sentence, when a dog dies get a new one. These handmaids are interchangable to the commander, to Serena, to the Gileads, to the cause, to the children born, to the cause. It is not surprising that the commander thinks and feels this way as this is the attitude set up. I can imagine the author drawing the conclusion from the way feminists feel women are thought of as interchangable in society.
DeleteYes, I agree and I feel like this also shows how different the Commander is from Offred and probably all the other handmaids. Originally when Offred and the Commander were talking about this, he said that it equaled 4 for him and one and one and one and one for her. I think that its interesting how for a male it is all in the same, and it all comes together to make up one. I think that this is partly why he is able to so easily get a new handmaid to be his mistress. While for Offred they (all the men in her life) are all separate in her mind, and she values each one of them, and would have trouble putting them together (into one memory/ section of her mind).
Delete"You must feel pretty ripped off. I guess it's not the first time. If I were You I'd be fed up. I'd really be sick of it. I guess that's the difference between us." (105)
ReplyDeleteI found this quote very important for a couple of reasons. First, I found it interesting the way that Offred addresses God. She makes it seem as if they were friends, she talks to God on a very personal level. Everything she says belies the way people generally talk to God. Most of the time people are more polite and conscious of what they say and in this case she makes it seem as if they spoke often. This makes me think that her relationship with God is very strong and she feels very comfortable praying. She says that if she were God she would feel ripped off yet I would have thought that she would be the one feeling ripped off due to her horrible circumstances. Why would God feel betrayed by the people of the new society? Did God not intend for anything like this to happen? Another thing that stood out to me about this passage was that she says it is not the first time God has been betrayed or ripped off. What other times has God been betrayed by the people? Is she referencing other moments of horrible mistreatment throughout history? The society of the Gilead is certainly a strong example of what would constitute people disobeying the life God intended. Offred says "I guess that's the difference between us." I found this part of the passage very interesting because that means that Offred does not feel betrayed or ripped off. Has the Gilead and the Aunts convinced her that this life is what is best for her or that she deserves it.
I'd like to have Luke here, in the bedroom while I'm getting dressed, so I could have a fight with him. Absurd that that's what I want. An argument, about who should put the dishes in the dishwasher, whose turn it is to sort the laundry, clean the toilet; something daily and unimportant in the big scheme of things...What a luxury it would be" (200).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me, because Offred realizes how much she misses her old life and admits that she had took it for granted of having a job, a family and most importantly the right of being a woman. In this line she mentions how everyday things for her is now considered luxuries because, of her oppressive lifestyle of being a handmaid. Her new lifestyle constrains her from experiencing daily task and issues that she has taken for granted. Such as the sound of her husband’s voice when they are arguing, which is considerd strange for anyone that misses that in a relationship because; it inevitably leads to the turmoil of the relationship. And, even those arguments on who does the laundry or the dishes gives Offred a sense of normalcy and a place where she is able to make her own decisions and have the ability to even talk to her husband.
"What the commander said is true. One and one and one and one doesn't equal four. Each one remains unique, there is no way of joining them together. They cannot be exchanged, on for the other. They cannot replace each other. Nick for Luke or Luke for Nick. Should does not apply" (192).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me initially because she is agreeing with the Commander about a point that he made about women. This surprised me because when the Commander said this,I did not understand what he meant by it at all. But, at least to Offred, I think it means that because women have emotional attachments to men and people in general, everyone becomes irreplacable to them. The way she says 'each one remains unique' makes me think of the handmaids and the way they are treated as if they are all just machines or animals, all used for the same purpose. The handmaids are moved from house to house, and even with the ones he develops some sort of relationship with, they are completely replaceable to the Commander. I think that in this passage Atwood is trying to highlight the differences between men and women. Women's emotions play a bigger role in their decisions, which is why in this society where women are completely silenced, everyone is treated as if they are replaceable. Offred adds that 'should does not apply' because although life would perhaps be easier if people were replaceable, that will never be the case. I was surprised that Offred says 'there is no way of joining them together,' because that seems to be exactly what they have done in this society. No one is an individual because each person fits into a category or class of people within their respective gender. So how is it that they seem to have found a way of joining people together into these categories? What are the consequences of this?
“Oh God, obliterate me. Make me fruitful. Mortify my flesh, that I may be multiplied. Let me be fulfilled.” (194)
ReplyDeleteI chose this quote because it appears to be religious, and I find religious quotes to be so interesting, especially in this context. This quote is a bit of an oxymoron, Offred is praying for God to kill her. However, suicide is a sin. She prays for god to mortify her flesh meaning to make her flesh dead. This is a really graphic imaged when you think about it. She isn’t just wishing to be dead she is wishing for her body and flesh to be dead, meaning old, rotting and cold. Then she prays to be multiplied, which I assume means she is wishing to be pregnant. She is praying for death and the death of her body, but also the multiplication of her. These two things are obviously contradictory, but it is also a bit cruel. She is praying to have a child, putting life in this cold new world, but then praying for death as she can not bare this world. Her last wish is for her to be fulfilled. I assume this means she is wishing for her wish to be realized.
This is really interesting. I agree that these things are all oxymorons, but I also think that she is almost wishing that if one doesn't happen that the other will. If she does not die, then hopefully she will have children to make her life better, more fulfilled. If her body does not die, then, she hopes, it will be bale to live on in a different person.
DeleteI too saw that this statement kind of contradicts itself, but I also agree with Rosie that she wants one of the two to happen. To her, it seems that either way there is a down side(Having a child is bringing it into a bad world, but killing yourself is, well, killing yourself). Either way, Offred is letting whatever happens happen, because if she does not act at all, either path is possible.
Delete"I'd like to have Luke here, in the bedroom while I'm getting dressed, so I could have a fight with him. Absurd, that that's what I want. An argument, about who should put the dishes in the dishwasher, whose turn it is to sort the laundry, clean the toilet; something daily and unimportant in the big scheme of things. We could even have a fight about that, about unimportant, important. What a luxury it would be" (200).
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because Offred's life now lacks humanity and normalcy and she yearns for a normal life. Married couples usually have small arguments about small things like dishes, laundry, and cleaning and they are unimportant and meaningless at the moment. But since she lacks this sense of normality, the everyday life that she used to live, means everything now since she one day hopes to live it again. These arguments bring out many emotions at the moment but in the world she lives in now, these ties to emotions are cut off. All Offred wants is to crave for any emotion, to be able to feeling something again.
'"We just won't tell him, will we?" This idea hangs between us, almost visible, almost heavy, formless, dark; collusion of a sort, betrayal of a sort.'
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because in having a secret between Serena joy and Offred, they share something. This seems to show the women's culture that was hoped for at the beginning of the society. They are standing together, against a man - standing up for what they want even against his power. I think the fact that this idea hangs without form, means to show that it doesn't even matter what the idea is but, the fact that it is there is enough to create a connection. I see more and more of Offred finding common ground with people who are not handmaids. Does this suggest that she is starting to accept this society, or is she finding a way to survive in it? Is she just causing herself to be more ignorant of what is going on around her? I think the fact that they are conspiring against someone shows that they have not found real common ground between themselves, but rather just they both hate the same thing and are happy to find someone else with whom to share this. In fact sharing is something that does not often happen in this world where everything is watched by the eye and anyone may be spying. This shows a sort of trust that almost no one has with each other.
I agree with you because for once, Serena and Offred are finally on common grounds. The women are looking at each other as equals and they are connecting. And for a moment, the women are united, going up against the men of the society. But how long will this unity last?
Delete"This is what you have to do before you kill, I thought. You have to create an it, where none was before. You do that first, in your head, and then you make it real." -193
ReplyDeleteWhile the direct context of this quote refers to the putting down of Offred and Luke's cat, I think that the meaning delves quite deeper. Creating an "it," dehumanizing women, is the basis of the entire society of Gilead. While the women are not being killed, per se, they are still having all rights stripped of them and they are being forced into very specific tiers of society; the lack of freedom they are allowed takes away the lives they once had in a different way than death. The Commander, I think, is starting to uncloud his vision and realize that women are not as one-dimensional (the "it") as he believed when he first supported the formation of Gilead. He tries to impress his new views upon his Handmaids, but his reformation is not complete, as is evident in his description of the disparities between the thought processes of men and women ("one and one and one and one"). His awkward back-and-forth views on the society in Gilead is very stressful for Offred and probably for the other Handmaids within his household as well, and probably had an affect on the fate of the Handmaid that came before Offred.
Kia before i say anything, i must say you did a great job of really expanding on this quote and taking it to the next level. I also agree on the fact of when you say this is dehumanizing it. I really find it weird how you have to go through all these means to kill just a cat, and this has the deeper meaning that reflects to women and you have found it, good job!
Delete"Because they were ready for us, and waiting. The moment of betrayal is the worst, the moment when you know beyond any doubt that you've been betrayed: that some other human being has wished you that much evil."(193)
ReplyDeleteI think that Offred feels betrayed by whoever snitched on her. In a way, if i put myself in Offred's shoes I'd feel the same way, but at the same time I think that the way she's talking is as if she'd never rat anyone out. I think that Offred, in a state of panic, would want what was best for her family, which could include outing out someone else. This would at least ensure temporary safety for her husband and daughter, but it would have been in vain because they would have been taken anyway. Has Offred ever ratted or been ratted out in the past, and is that why she dislikes whoever outted her?
"What the commander said is true. One and one and one and one doesn't equal four. Each one remains unique, there is no way of joining them together. They cannot be exchanged, on for the other. They cannot replace each other"(PG 192)
ReplyDeleteThis quote was really interesting because the "they" reminded me of the handmaid's. This reminded me of how even though the handmaid's do have the same job, which is to conceive a baby for the Commander, they do remain unique with their own qualities. Just like comparing them to the Martha's, you can't put them together with the Handmaid's, they have separate qualities. Reading this quote at first i've had to analyze of what this might be relating to. While analyzing i realized that she also believed what the Commander had said, that many people can't be replaceable nor can be together, working together because they are different from the rest.
I agree with you and i also think that the commander is telling this to Offred; he doesn't want to lose her. She's probably not like that other handmaids he's been with. She breaks the rules: playing scrabble with him, sees him when she's not suppose to, and have "heart to heart" conversations with him. Even though she's scared and she knows she will get killed if his wife finds out.
DeleteI agree with you. This line stood out to me as well because I remember the commander telling her this or somethig along these lines. I agree with Joyce that he plays scrabble and sees magazines with Offred because she's unique and different from the other handmaids. The society has made these women a certain way, constraining them to become a certain way and to all produce babies for the wives of the commanders but Offred seems to be much more than that to the commander. I didn't understand what the commander was saying until I read these pages, but now I see what he means by it doesn't equal 4. Making these women all do the same thing doesn't combine them to create baby making machines there's more to them.
Delete"It was like being in an elevator cut loose at the top. Falling, falling, and not knowing when you'll hit" (193).
ReplyDeleteI find it really interesting that Atwood used an elevator falling in comparison to the feeling of betrayal. This comparison is true though because when one is being betrayed they really do not know what’s happening, how long has this betrayal been going on and why they had gotten betrayed. So when Atwood says “falling falling” it’s like an endless amount of questions going through one’s head and like the falling elevator, you never know when it’s going to stop. I like the idea of this elevator because it explains the society Ofred lives in; she’s closed in and theres no room for her to move around in kind of like no freedom. She’s limited to space. She’s trapped and there’s no way out.
I agree, and you could also say when the quote says "falling,and not knowing when you'll hit" is how all the Handmaids feel, like they are all on edge not knowing which on of them could be sent away to be an unwomen in the colonies. You could also take it farther and say that's how everyone in the society feels because one day you could be walking on the street and be taken away just like the man Offred saw when she was out shopping.
Delete" 'I was thinking Nick,' she says, and her voice is almost soft. 'He's been with us a long time. He's loyal. I could fix it with him'...'What about the Commander?' I say. 'Well,' she says...'We just won't tell him, will we?'"(205)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because I was not surprised by Serena Joy picked Nick to have a baby with Offred because he seems very trusting because he is the same way with the Commander when he needs him to send her a message about seeing him at night. But even though Serena is going against the law and letting Offred have sex with Nick she is still basically holding it against her that she could tell the authorities if she wanted to, so that Offred could get sent away, but in a way she wouldn't do that because she really wants this baby Offred soon realizes. But it's like Serena is contently remaining Offred that she has the upper hand in this relationship and she is just there for physical purposes and nothing more.
Nia, this quote stood out to me as well- I knew Nick was going to be mentioned. I also feel like Offred herself isnt too afraid of the consequences she may face for breaking the rules because either way- she will face one. Also, maybe she is only to be with Nick for physical purposes, but will end up really falling in love with him...?
Delete"Knowing was a temptation... Maybe I don't really want to know what's going on. Maybe I'd rather not know. Maybe I couldn't bear to know. The Fall was a fall from innocence to knowledge" 195
ReplyDelete"A fall from innocence to knowledge". I think that that statement/line shows how much influence the new society has had on Offred. I think that before the society change, she would not have considered this a fall. I don't think that gaining knowledge would have been seen as a fall, although it may be harder to know than not to know, I think that they would have seen it as a positive to be aware of what was going on an why. I think that Offred now views knowledge as a "negative" or is beginning to question weather it is good or bad is because of the influence Ye aunts have on her. They say many things like "knowledge is a temptation" and "want is a weakness" which may discourage the women to want to learn because they are afraid of falling out of line. Another cause could be the fact that they are unable to be aware of their surroundings, which then would make it harder for them to handle information when the have the privilege to. Another thing that stood out to me about this quote was her use of the word "maybe". I think that Atwood chose to use "maybe" to show how unsure of herself Offred has become. It show how one event could change someone's views fully. Before Offred found out about the girl killing herself on the chandelier she probably didn't even think of any of this or the effect knowledge has on people. Before she may have been craving new information, but now that she discovered something new she realized that it may not have been what she wanted after all.
Knowledge is in many a ways a burden to Offred. This society makes it so that knowing less is convenient because they are content. When the handmaids are given the ability to question their surroundings their lives become much more difficult and burdensome. Is it better to be innocent and unaware or aware and unhappy? This question seems to be the true reason that Offred says "maybe" in this quote. This essential question does not have an answer and she has to find a way to work around it. She is unable to stay away from this very natural temptation and because of it may be in a lot of danger.
DeleteQuote:
ReplyDelete"Something daily and unimportant in the big scheme of things. We could even have a fight about that unimportant, important. What a luxury it would be"(200).
Analysis:
Indeed, what a luxury it would be to have the love of your life with you when you are going through the hard things in life. What Atwood is trying to say when she says "unimportant in the big scheme of things" she is saying to have something that can make her get away from the hard things in life. She is remembering all of this and i believe it is the only thing that is keeping her from going insane. She says she scripts these fights in her head, and her memories are keeping her sane. She is remembering Luke and the fights they had over silly little things that kept there relationship going and these little fights can be good things too. But when she used to do these things, it really did not matter to her, but now that she can not, she really misses Luke. What i do not get is, What had happen to Luke?
"...because that little sacrifice, that snuffling out of love, was done for my sake as well. That's one of the things they do. They force you to kill, within yourself" (193).
ReplyDeleteThis line stood out to me because I feel like it's a theme or main idea that is seen not only in the book but in this world/society as well. When I read this part the first question that popped into my mind was "who's they? Why say they?" I substituted the they with society and it's true; the society Offred is in has definitely made her kill within herself. She has had to become this handmaid when she was originally married with a daughter, this kills her even if she doesn't directly say it, the memories shows her emotions and how much she really loved Luke and her daughter. To me this quote means that to get any type of satifaction you have to "snuffle" out of things and the way to do that is to do something that's going to keep you silent/safe even if it hurts you or isn't the best thing to do in life. People do that in today's society, the government even makes you accept things that you can't change and you can't do anything about it, killing one's personal views. Except in this novel, it's killing who Offred once was.
"The body is marked only with a J, in red. It does't mean doesn't mean Jewish, those would be yellow stars. Anyway there haven't been many of them. Because they were declared Sons of Jacob and therefore special, they were given a choice. They could convert, or emigrate to Israel." -200
ReplyDeleteThis quote really stood out to me because it related to some ideas mentioned referring the Gilead society to be relevant to that of the Nazi uprising. This quote addresses the rule against the Jewish and how they were forced to move out of the country or convert to Christianity. Getting back to the quote this shows the policy upon opposing religions in the country. I feel like the now known uprising of the Gilead society can relate to that of the Nazi uprising. First both of the parties invaded their own countries and took over their governments then moved on to the other countries which Is what I think will happen. This also relates to why the way of society is very primitive or degressive to what we have achieved leading up to the uprising. I feel that in the book the Women are being suppressed to some extent while in the Nazi uprising Jews were suppressed and murdered. This is why I think the author is saying that the the thought of Women being suppressed in society is very primitive and counter intuitive just like how many think that the separation of religions is very primitive and idiotic.
" I wish I knew what you were up to. But whatever it is, help me to get through it, please. Though maybe its not Your doing; I don't believe for an instant that whats going on out there is what You meant." (194)
ReplyDeleteI chose this quote because for some reason- it stood out to me. It also had me wondering a little. When she denies the fact that this could have been the doing of God, I wondered who meant it, and if she believed if anyone else was in power of this. What if shes saying this in order to not be upset with God? Maybe she wants to feel that sense of security and hope that she'll be saved one day, that she refuses to even make it a possibility?
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ReplyDelete"The giraffes accepted Billy as one of their own, as one of their own, as a harmless creature as preposterously specialized as themselves. To approached him from opposite sides, leaned against him. They had long, muscular upper lips which they could shape like the bells of bugles. They kissed him with these. They were female giraffes--cream and lemon yellow. They had horns like doorknobs. The knobs were covered with velvet. Why?"
ReplyDeleteWhat is Vonnegut comparing or representing about Billy's life using the giraffes?
I believe that the giraffes are trying to represent the rest of the world compared to Billy. He's known as this helpless guy who wasn't even ready nor soldier material to go to war. The giraffes are described as muscular with necks the size of bell bugles, while Billy is described as a helpless creature. No one sees him as important or a threat, so he get's "stepped all over" and is considered extra weight. Plus, the giraffes are also representing his fellow soldiers who are fit for war, and then there's this guy who's just there to be there. No experience or training, everyone else sees him as dead weight as mentioned before, and someone who won't even make it the first day. Vonnegut's trying to expose the men like Billy who were never seen as hero's because of how they looked or their prior experiences before.